OK, Lewmar Epsilon

[jwfrary]

OK, anchor thread dare I.

I am shopping for a new anchor, existing Bruce doesn't right well onto the bow roller so overhaul of the whole arrangement is in need.

Looking at the epsilon, and I notice that its available with a roll bar or without....i also read that the roll bars for sailing boats.

Im intersted in what the reason is behind that. To me it would be pretty handy to have the roll bar on just in case you snag something and have to flip the anchor with a rope having not set a trip line, but that's a plus not an indended person!

 

[Neeves]

I have a number of thoughts on this.

The introduction of the roll bar, by Bruce, and copied on Rocna and the success of Rocna has lead to the idea that a roll bar is essential. The inclusion of a roll bar by Lewmar - may simply pander to this idea. Lewmar, with the Delta and other anchors, especially Bruce, have shown that if well designed you simply do not need a roll bar and Spade, Excel, Vulcan etc underline this factoid.

Rocna is almost a direct copy of Spade and when I was looking at anchors Craig Smith advised that the roll bar was actually needed only on a very few occasions (he omitted to mention when) and the anchor worked quite well without, the roll bar. There is some evidence that in sloppy muds anchors don't self right easily (which is why Fortress works so well) and maybe the Smiths found that in some seabeds the roll bar did help.

If you take a Spade and lay it on top of a Rocna the 2 flukes have the same plan view, identical. If you take the Rocna shank and smooth out the corners with a French curve, you get a Spade shank (which actually copies Delta shank). If you look at the location of a Spade and Rocna shank - they are in the same place. If you make a rough calculation of the weight of the extra steel in the Rocna toe it is roughly the same as the weight of the lead in Spade. The big difference is that the weight in Spade is much better focussed (lead being denser) than in Rocna and this will negatively impact the self righting ability of Rocna. Vulcan looks as if the Smiths lost any inhibitions over copying when they looked at the 'new' design. Vulcan really contradicts Peter Smiths lauding of the roll bar as being essential and his criticism he made of Manson copying Rocna. Pots and kettles come to mind.

I am sure Lewmar will have analysed the competition to death and will have optimised Epsilon and made some crucial improvements over Delta. They will not be offering the option of a roll bar less 'version' if they have any qualms at all.

I am much in favour of the idea - they are pandering to perceptions.

Anchors now, most of the new designs, Rocna, Spade, Excel, Viking, Epsilon etc etc offer the same hold for a given weight. They all engage and set with ease. They do what is says on the box, and the script on the boxes are very similar. There is a decent anchor in every chandler. Differentiation now is, do you like the shape, does it fit on your bow roller, does it fit your wallet.

There are differences, concave anchors are retrieved carrying seabed (you really need a decent deck wash) the roll bar does seem to exacerbate this. If you want to save weight then the only lightweight anchors are the aluminium Spade and Excel and the high tensile steel Viking - you get more hold per kg of anchor weight - but the same hold per cm^2. Some anchors are more prone to a shackle locking up in the shank slot - check this at the Chandler with shackles of their display (and make sure the shackle fits your chain). If you take your anchor off the bow roller, when you race, then a roll bar makes the anchor easier, and safer, to carry.

I don't believe that blindfold you will tell the difference between the performance as an anchor of the usual suspects and Epsilon, with or without its roll bar).

However you might prefer to invest locally, buy a Knox. Most anchors are now made in China and you might like the idea of supporting the economies of specific countries, Excel is made in Australia, Knox, as said, in Scotland, Fortress in the US, Viking in Ukraine (and does Ukraine need support?) and Spade in Tunisia. You might prefer lighter weight, buy a Viking. You might anchor in harder seabeds - Excel has a narrower and sharper toe. You might like the idea that the steel being used is defined, Excel (good Australian HT steel), Knox (UK steel?) and Viking (steel from Finland or Sweden). You might value the ability to return the anchor and change for a bigger, smaller model - Epsilon or Knox if you are in the UK.

Do not lose sight of the idea that there is no perfect anchor and that Fortress stands head and shoulder above virtually every other anchor in soupy mud (but is a bit of a disaster in weed).

There will be perceived differences from owners of modern anchors - but nothing really stands out.

So.....have a word with your wallet or your financial controller, test for fit and is the anchor you want available locally? - and you will have made the right decision.

Jonathan

 

[Tranona]

I have just bought an Epsilon for the reasons Jonathan lists - it seems to have comparable holding power to other new gen anchors and should surely be better than the Delta. I have had 2 Deltas and never had problems, so pretty confident it will be a good choice. Did not bother with the roll bar - but it is only £7.50 on the 10kg if you feel you need it. Lewmar suggest it is there for sailboat applications which to my mind means following fashion as observation suggests that roll bars are more common on sailboats - or is it because sailboats were the early adopters of new gen anchors many of which had roll bars?

Marine Superstore has the best prices at the moment - and stock. My only criticism is that the finish is rather rough compared with the Delta but I don't suppose that Poole Harbour mud will object!

 

[Neeves]

The comment on the rough finish of Epsilon has been made before. If it is the galvanising that is rough then it might wear, polish, out with use - if its the casting (and I assume the fluke is cast) then it will stay rough.

In my ignorance I would cast the fluke, lost wax/imvestment casting - which can result in a beautiful surface, have a slot in the casting (which with investment casting can be very accurately produced to match the shank plate thickness) and weld HT shank to fluke. Certainly the early Rocna flukes when they started, investment, casting were very neat, clean and precise with the name and logo on the upturned heel. I have not noticed if that has been maintained.

For large (commercial) anchors surface finish, fabricated (assembled and welded from plate) rather than the rough finish of some castings has been said to influence performance. For our, leisure, anchors polished stainless holds less mud than 'standard' rough steel - but whether this seriously impacts a detectable performance difference is questionable.

Epsilon has been tested and shown to perform as well (possibly better) than Rocna/Supreme/Spade/Excel and all 5 are rated as Super High Holding Power. This effectively means that for a given weight their hold will be similar (and any differences undetectable by 'us', the consumer..

There may be subtle differences but we all want an anchor that works dependably in all, or most, seabeds - not one that has a subtle advantage in some seabeds (and maybe a subtle disadvantage) in others.

Other than engagement and setting a roll bar offers no advantage and is a disadvantage in weed - as the roll bar simply clogs quickly. If the anchor sets reliably without a roll bar there really seems no need to pay the extra. Weed reduces your ability to engender a reliable set - best to steer clear anyway.

These anchors will never set to their full potential and a roll bar would simply reduce performance further.




Jonathan

 

[doug748]

If you check out the Panope review of the Epsilon (40lb, I think) on YouTube he comes to the conclusion that the roll bar is of little use and may even hinder setting.

I have an Epsilon, without the roll bar, and have been very happy with it. I am a bit surprised that you have problems with the Bruce at the bow, it's one of the more elegantly proportioned anchors but I guess the side flukes could get in the way. The Epsilon is very short in length compared with many and it would be worth getting one from a source who would swap if you have problems, I found Force 4 very accommodating.

.

 

[Ningaloo]

I have an Epsilon (without roll bar) and my secondary is a Viking, with what is probably the largest roll bar of all!
I am very satisfied with the performance of both. In mud or sand there is little but the tip of the shank (and top of rollbar on the Viking) showing once they are set.
I was fortunate to be able to swap out the Delta supplied with my new boat for an Epsilon at minimal cost and the Viking appealed as it is much lighter to use as a secondary (potentially off the stern) and can also be dismantled for easy stowage. Personally, I felt good about supporting Ukraine too.

 

[jwfrary]

Thanks Jonathan for the long and considered reply.

Seems the roll bar is occasionally useful but you don't get somethufb for nothing, on balance its probably a drawback

Purely on a cost basis the epsilon galvanised at least is one of, if not the most competitivly priced of the UHHP anchors which is what drew me to it.

I might order a roll bar and do some testing of my own, (having access to an ROV should prove useful!) I'll post what I find.

The vessel is 18 ton displacement fully laden and 12m x 5m cat, currently with a 10mm chain/rope rode which I was going to renew with 50m of chain and 150m of line 18mm on the gypsy I think. We anchor in some pretty deep water for ROV work on occasion.

I'm thinking the 25kg model would be appropriate.

 

[Neeves]

Thanks Jonathan for the long and considered reply.

Seems the roll bar is occasionally useful but you don't get somethufb for nothing, on balance its probably a drawback

Purely on a cost basis the epsilon galvanised at least is one of, if not the most competitivly priced of the UHHP anchors which is what drew me to it.

I might order a roll bar and do some testing of my own, (having access to an ROV should prove useful!) I'll post what I find.

The vessel is 18 ton displacement fully laden and 12m x 5m cat, currently with a 10mm chain/rope rode which I was going to renew with 50m of chain and 150m of line 18mm on the gypsy I think. We anchor in some pretty deep water for ROV work on occasion.

I'm thinking the 25kg model would be appropriate.

The 25kg model 'should' be fine - that's what is says on the box and that's the sort of size I would use. I'd obviously, maybe not obviously, use a smaller, lighter, chain - but you use what you have and importantly what fits the gypsy.

I had surmised that kg of anchor vs kg of hold then Epsilon would be the winner - and I suspect it will become the standard on yachts at boat shows and on newly commissioned yachts. Lewmar will package it up with their windlass, chain and other components, hatches and winches (to dealers and boat builders) - and the market that exists today (replacing Deltas with something better) will change. Unless something really awful turns up with the performance of Epsilon - Lewmar have no need to market - it will sell itself. Its surprsing it took them so long. Its going to put real pressure on the current crop of anchors - they will need to offer some significant technical advantage to differentiate themselves (and I hate to harp on) but Viking have revealed one niche (use high tensile steel to offer lower weight). If my predictions are right the rest will need to follow or put a bit of real effort into development. Which is good for us.

If you can do some work with an ROV with some images - it will be very revealing, a major source of background (and an article for you to submit to PBO).

Jonathan

Yes - I'm jealous.

 

[Lodestone]

I have just bought an Epsilon for the reasons Jonathan lists - it seems to have comparable holding power to other new gen anchors and should surely be better than the Delta. I have had 2 Deltas and never had problems, so pretty confident it will be a good choice. Did not bother with the roll bar - but it is only £7.50 on the 10kg if you feel you need it. Lewmar suggest it is there for sailboat applications which to my mind means following fashion as observation suggests that roll bars are more common on sailboats - or is it because sailboats were the early adopters of new gen anchors many of which had roll bars?

Marine Superstore has the best prices at the moment - and stock. My only criticism is that the finish is rather rough compared with the Delta but I don't suppose that Poole Harbour mud will object!

Can I ask how have you got on with your new Epsilon anchor? Many thanks.

 

[Ningaloo]

Can I ask how have you got on with your new Epsilon anchor? Many thanks.

I commented previously about my experience with my Epsilon and Viking. I have now had three seasons use, the first exclusively Epsilon, second predominantly Viking and the third exclusively Epsilon.
After the first season the Epsilon showed signs of rusting on some areas where the galvanizing was of poor quality. I swapped to the Viking and took the matter up with Lewmar who, to their credit, acknowledged that there had been issues with galvanizing and offered a replacement. As the Lewmar stock also had poor galvanizing I ended up with stainless.
Although I am generally happy with the Epsilon, I intend switching back to the Viking next season, at least initially. I think that in harder substrate (hard packed sand or gravel) the Viking might be easier to get to hold. There were a few occasions this season where I took multiple attempts before I was happy we were secure on the Epsilon.

 

[Tranona]

One season's light use. Sets and holds well but my type of use is not very demanding. Chose a 10kg which is on the limit for my size boat. However my previous boat of similar size had a 10kg Delta which performed well so I have confidence that the SHHP rating of the Epsilon will give confidence in all the situations I am likely to encounter.

 

[Lodestone]

One season's light use. Sets and holds well but my type of use is not very demanding. Chose a 10kg which is on the limit for my size boat. However my previous boat of similar size had a 10kg Delta which performed well so I have confidence that the SHHP rating of the Epsilon will give confidence in all the situations I am likely to encounter.

Thank you. I'm also using a Delta (20kg) and have been pretty pleased with it over the years. The only stuff I haven't tried it in is deep ooze yet. I'd like to join the early 21stC but I'm currently in therapy after seeing Rocna 2's at £6K. One of the workboat companies I charter from just uses railway wheels....I think they're on to something! Might sink me tho'!!

 

[Neeves]

I thought that traditionally there was a boat show in the UK early in the New Year - if that is the case there may be deals. I have this fear that maybe economics have squeezed winter boat shows to become but a memory - as there have been no posts of cheap tickets.

Railway wheels are a great option but a devil to fit on bow rollers.

For ooze or soupy muds the best option is a Fortress. Fortress did some tests in Chesapeake muds a couple of years ago (and they chose the seabed specifically) and the only anchors that offered any reliability were, surprise, surprise a Fortress with a Danforth coming in second. None of the other anchors, Rocna, Spade etc etc would offer any comfort in strong winds

Jonathan

There were a number of articles on Fortress' recent tests in the Chesapeake as Fortress invited, (as a means to try to show fairness, independence and lack of bias) the yachting media to attend the tests.

This is one article:

Anchoring in Squishy Bottoms - Practical Sailor

If you Google "Chesapeake Fortress anchor tests" you will have a number of different articles from different magazines and some Forum discussions.

The seabed was chosen by Fortress and emphasises the excellence of the Fortress anchor in soupy muds. Fortress offers security in other seabeds as do other anchors - but for soft mud we would not use anything else. Arguably the Achilles heel of most anchors is soft, soupy, squishy seabeds - but then the Achilles heel of Fortress is weed and stony seabeds.

A decent railway wheel used to hold the size of leisure yacht most of us own ( or owned) will be secure on almost any seabed - but be difficult to stow on a bow roller.

Horses for courses

(Apart from the railway wheel) no anchor is perfect.

Jonathan

 

[Tranona]

No winter boat show now and very few winter deals compared with the past. Prices have shot up in the last year. I bought mine (10kg) last November 2022, normal price then £180, but "Black Friday" deal brought it down to £160. Now best price is £220. 20kg now £330 - bargain compared with £690 for a Vulcan, although the latter looks very sexy and curvaceous!

 

[[193211]]

I bought a 6kg Epsilon for my wee 7m boat at the beginning of the season. Used it lots within that period. Seemed to set first time and I had no problems with it resetting on the tide.

The finish is as rough as others have described. No rust showing. Time will tell.

It was relatively inexpensive which matched my wallet. The saving went towards replacing the rode with something more appropriate for the area. I keep a Fortress in a locker and I feel the two should cover most bases.

 

[Pete7]

No winter boat show now and very few winter deals compared with the past. Prices have shot up in the last year. I bought mine (10kg) last November 2022, normal price then £180, but "Black Friday" deal brought it down to £160. Now best price is £220. 20kg now £330 - bargain compared with £690 for a Vulcan, although the latter looks very sexy and curvaceous!

Good grief

But there is worse to come: Rocna Mk Il Anchor - Galvanised - Jimmy Green Marine

 

[doug748]

Good grief

But there is worse to come: Rocna Mk Il Anchor - Galvanised - Jimmy Green Marine

Blimey, I have a 10kg Rocna in the shed what a terrific hedge against inflation, Wish I had bought ten of them.

.

 

[[193211]]

Good grief

But there is worse to come: Rocna Mk Il Anchor - Galvanised - Jimmy Green Marine

Mad.

 

[Lodestone]

Good grief

But there is worse to come: Rocna Mk Il Anchor - Galvanised - Jimmy Green Marine

Pete - best sit down for this Rocna Mk Il Anchor - Galvanised - Jimmy Green Marine the link is actually for the SS version but for some reason it defaults to saying galvanised.

 

[rogerthebodger]

A friend of mine who makes Rocna type anchors Galvanized MS would charge 12 000 Rand ( 520 GBP) for a 33 Kg verson