OK I admit it I made a mistake !

[Fittster]

I've got the RYA Day Skipper certs but I've virtually no other experience and haven't stepped on a boat for about 3 years.

Nice to know when I do get round to sorting boat/mooring (that magnum trimaran will be mine) I'll be perfectly proficient.

 

[Mukes]

A bit off the wall but what about a Maurice Griffiths Eventide. The example below looks good for £4.5k - with new inboard 2009. Ticks all your boxes.

http://www.boatshop24.co.uk/advertdetail.php?callpage=externalbrokerlist&btsrefno=25331258

 

[Searush]

Wytco0,

if you plan creek crawling & drying out on the twin keels, don't be so quick to specify a sea toilet; they don't work if the boat is dried out, and can require unpleasant & expensive maintenance including their seacocks, they also mean holes in the hull which can never be a particularly good thing.

Contrary to what some believe, modern chemical loos do not smell, can be used with the boat dried out - and in a crowded marina - and are completely self contained...just a thought.

Nothing against a porta potti - but it will need to be carried ashore to an emptying point every few days. I wouldn't risk trying to pour it over the side, even far out to sea.

There's no great problem with sea toilets on a drying anchorage, just take a bucket of sea water aboard before the tide departs. You can choose to flush thro (not pleasant on a hot day with several hours before the tide returns) or to hold in the water until the tide returns. With the seat closed there is little smell. If dried out on sand, you could flush thro & then bury any solids, flushing with a little fresh sea water from your bucket. Obviously one needs to be sensible if on a popular beach, but I like the quiet deserted spots anyway.

 

[tom_sail]

Nothing against a porta potti - but it will need to be carried ashore to an emptying point every few days. I wouldn't risk trying to pour it over the side, even far out to sea.

There's no great problem with sea toilets on a drying anchorage, just take a bucket of sea water aboard before the tide departs. You can choose to flush thro (not pleasant on a hot day with several hours before the tide returns) or to hold in the water until the tide returns. With the seat closed there is little smell. If dried out on sand, you could flush thro & then bury any solids, flushing with a little fresh sea water from your bucket. Obviously one needs to be sensible if on a popular beach, but I like the quiet deserted spots anyway.

I took a walk down Aber Menai beach last weekend As i understand this is one of your "favourite spots", i shall tread more carefully next time

 

[wytco0]

Thanks and keep them coming

Thanks for all your recommendations I have added a list in the first post and I am going to start researching them all at the weekend. I will update the list with my findings and thoughts.

I am not sure if its a function of the small(ish) size of these boats but from the pictures I have seen so far many of them look very attractive which I was not expecting.

 

[LadyInBed]

You are talking like a pillock, abusing people like that.

What courses did Ransome take, or Shane Acton, were the Hiscocks RYA trained, or Tilman? What is this stupid obsession with abrogating all responsibility for one's own safety by "taking courses?" . . .

. . . On the other hand I happen to know quite a few good sailors that happen to hold RYA quals, but they are not good sailors just because they have the certificate.

Glad you said it before I got to boiling point and said something regrettable

 

[LadyInBed]

Nothing against a porta potti - but it will need to be carried ashore to an emptying point every few days. I wouldn't risk trying to pour it over the side, even far out to sea.

I had a Swin Ranger for sixteen years with a porta potti. With a family of four, I never had to do an 'emergency empty' over the side, just took the opportunity when I was along side at a convenient location.

 

[PeteCooper]

I would suggest that a starting point would be to visit any marinas or places selling boats in your area, have a look at what is available in your price range, pick the best2 or 3 from them(by best I mean the ones that appeal to you most for whatever reason) then ask on here for any experience of them. If you focus on one particular model then they may be few and far between, or the cost of delivery to your mooring may be high.

 

[Searush]

I took a walk down Aber Menai beach last weekend As i understand this is one of your "favourite spots", i shall tread more carefully next time

Easy to stay afloat there. Jolly good cockles up in the corner too.

BTW, I am not recommending crapping on the beach like a dog, you know, & the area is flooded by tides twice a day. There are still many parts of Scotland where domestic toilets flush directly into a crystal clear loch. You can sometimes see the ribbons of loo paper caught amongst the kelp.

 

[Iliade]

Bounce test

I spent many years with a lightweight 1/4 tonner. Much of the sailing time was spent holding her back as she tried to leapfrog the waves whenever heading even slightly windward.

I found that passage times were often slower than friends with Centaurs because the Centaurs could bully their way through the local short chop without the need to slow down.

Also I was very impressed by the amount of Fiberglass wasted during their construction. Try standing on any Fiberglass part and jumping up and down. The only weaknesses I am aware of is that:

- Some models were a little undernourished about the keel roots. Easily fixed, but this only seemed to reveal itself when they were permanently moored in tidal and I suspect probably very exposed locations.

- Early ones had leaky windows

- You cannot see out of the saloon windows when seated in a B layout unless you are seven feet tall.

Of course I eventually succumbed and bought one, a decision with which I am thoroughly satisfied.

I can think of no similarly small boat that would make me feel as safe as a Centaur had I made a poor weather decision, other than their stablemates (W25, Chieftain, etc.) This means that I am happy to set off on fairly long passages with the kids onboard, offsetting the unreliability of forecasts against the inherent seaworthiness of the boat. I am sure that any Centaur owner on the forum would be glad to show you their boat's capabilities...

 

[PeteCooper]

I spent many years with a lightweight 1/4 tonner. Much of the sailing time was spent holding her back as she tried to leapfrog the waves whenever heading even slightly windward.

I found that passage times were often slower than friends with Centaurs because the Centaurs could bully their way through the local short chop without the need to slow down.

While the Centaur has many good points, my elderly quarter tonner(from 1972 - originally designed in 1969) will run rings round a Centaur on any point of sail.

 

[aquaplane]

While the Centaur has many good points, my elderly quarter tonner(from 1972 - originally designed in 1969) will run rings round a Centaur on any point of sail.

And where would a person be able to find one of these spritely boats Pete?

 

[ianat182]

Most of the suggested yachts above are excellent choices,but coming back to the Centaurs and the Cobras and Leisure, these are the more stable boats. The quarter tonner whilst a good performer would not have been designed as a family cruiser but for racing and the odd overnight stay; and as a platform to walk about the decks in a blow,not recommended, with your admitted limited experience.
My own boat is also a Westerly, a Tiger, so not really suitable for your intended area of use with a fin keel of 1.3m(4'3" )draft, but she's virtually identical to the Centaur. I've tutored several novices, and dinghy sailors feeling the urge to go further in their sailing career, with great success, even including some club racing, and a RTIR excursion.
Incidentally she has a 10hp Volvo 2010 and achieves 6 knots with this engine.
Both types are forgiving boats, instilling confidence the more you sail them, and relatively cheap to buy and maintain; built like the proverbial .........too.!!

ianat182

 

[machurley22]

While the Centaur has many good points, my elderly quarter tonner(from 1972 - originally designed in 1969) will run rings round a Centaur on any point of sail.

And where would a person be able to find one of these spritely boats Pete?

Ooh! Handbags at dawn.

Given your recent experience with the jobsworth on Gustymere Bob I suggest you move Chiron to the Clyde and settle this important issue once and for all.

 

[Seajet]

As I'm not a Centaur owner, I'll spare their blushes and just point out that the Cobra & Leisures are what I call 'boat show boats'; a roomy interior to impress SWMBO at the show, but disappointing sailing performance compared to a Centaur ( which itself is 'competent but no greyhound' ).

I'm not talking about racing or anything like that, just getting from A to B reasonably efficiently, and before dark / closing time !

As others have mentioned, what was the number sold - nearly 3,000 ?! They can't all be wrong.

My only quibble with the Centaur is the neutral, unrewarding lack of feel on the helm; but that applies to most twin keelers of this format, to get better one would be looking at things like the Sadler 25 twin keel, and another to consider if you happened across one is the twin keel version of the Seawolf 26, same designer as the Cobra ( David Feltham ) but much more of a sailors' boat.

I'd suggest avoiding the Seawolf 30 though, a very big rig which keeps experienced sailors I know on their toes.

 

[Lakesailor]

You are talking like a pillock, abusing people like that.

What courses did Ransome take, or Shane Acton, were the Hiscocks RYA trained, or Tilman? What is this stupid obsession with abrogating all responsibility for one's own safety by "taking courses?"

Watch some of Dylan's videos & see how he handles that small boat almost entirely under sail & often with a camera in hand - Dylan is self taught too. In my experience the biggest, most self-opinionated twots are often the know-it-alls "trained by the RYA". A piece of paper doesn't make you right, or even safe - vigilance, observation & understanding make you safe, not a silly bit of paper from the RYA.

On the other hand I happen to know quite a few good sailors that happen to hold RYA quals, but they are not good sailors just because they have the certificate.

Incidentally, it isn't hard to learn about all the stuff you talk about, there are plenty of books available & trying stuff out on your own boat is 10x better than classroom work. Please take your head out of your bum & have a good look around at the people who have bits of paper & those who have been sailing safely for years without.

Completely agree. Well done.

 

[Seajet]

+1. I managed to teach myself, one eventually learns all sorts of things like engine, rig & mooring maintenance as well as the navigation stuff one would expect; I did the shorebased part of yachtmaster with a chum only after we'd already crossed the Channel quite a few times, to see if we were missing anything ( we weren't ).

I would have left it at that, but the chance came up to do ym offshore with the company paying, so I took it, and enjoyed it; I don't think I'd have blown up or sunk if I hadn't taken it though...

 

[wytco0]

I spent many years with a lightweight 1/4 tonner. Much of the sailing time was spent holding her back as she tried to leapfrog the waves whenever heading even slightly windward.

I found that passage times were often slower than friends with Centaurs because the Centaurs could bully their way through the local short chop without the need to slow down.

Also I was very impressed by the amount of Fiberglass wasted during their construction. Try standing on any Fiberglass part and jumping up and down. The only weaknesses I am aware of is that:

- Some models were a little undernourished about the keel roots. Easily fixed, but this only seemed to reveal itself when they were permanently moored in tidal and I suspect probably very exposed locations.

- Early ones had leaky windows

- You cannot see out of the saloon windows when seated in a B layout unless you are seven feet tall.

Of course I eventually succumbed and bought one, a decision with which I am thoroughly satisfied.

I can think of no similarly small boat that would make me feel as safe as a Centaur had I made a poor weather decision, other than their stablemates (W25, Chieftain, etc.) This means that I am happy to set off on fairly long passages with the kids onboard, offsetting the unreliability of forecasts against the inherent seaworthiness of the boat. I am sure that any Centaur owner on the forum would be glad to show you their boat's capabilities...

Thanks for info but I am not sure what a "lightweight 1/4 tonner" is? whats should I search for?

 

[Twister_Ken]

Thanks for info but I am not sure what a "lightweight 1/4 tonner" is? whats should I search for?

They're like the drunken girls you see on the cops-with-cameras telly shows - amusing to watch but you wouldn't want to live with one.

 

[Tranona]

Thanks for info but I am not sure what a "lightweight 1/4 tonner" is? whats should I search for?

Like Ken's girls - you will recognise it when you see it. Be wary of those who prattle on about "sailing performance" - that is only one measure of a boats characteristics. Being able to undertake the type of passages you want is the key requirement. If you want to buzz around the racecourse in an afternoon and get back to the bar in time for a couple of hours of BSing - get a 1/4 tonner. If you want to make coastal passages comfortably to moor up in a nice harbour for the night etc, get a Centaur.

Incidentally I have owned an Eventide (suggested earlier - but a bigger version) for over 30 years. Fantastic boat (for me) but not one I would recommend for a first boat - too much work, and nowhere near as good as a Centaur (or similar) for practical cruising.