Ok, A very Strange one but that's me....

[William_H]

Buying a boat

The real trick is to buy your last boat first. You will spend money and effort getting your new boat just as you want it so if you find you are not satisfied and buy a bigger one you will lose a lot of money and time.
On the other hand as said costs go up hugely with size. So good luck with the decision olewill

 

[Signed Out]

Staying at the smaller end, if you like C26s, there is the Folksong of course. And although there's a lot in a poor state (having been home completion typically), there are some stunners.

 

[sighmoon]

I agree with others that irrespective of length, you definitely don't want to be stretching yourself with the purchase price, as keeping the boat going is often more expensive than expected. If the cost causes you stress, you'll grow to hate the boat

There was once a thread about costs and boat size.
Within bounds, mooring fees go up proportionately with length; this is usually the most significant cost, and the one you can't avoid.
Cost of antifoul goes up wiht the square of length (ie twice the length, twice the beam, so 4 times the antifoul); the choice of antifouling depends where you keep the boat, but my last boat did very well with the Compass cheap stuff (approx £50 for a 27 footer), so this needn't be that significant a cost.
Sail replacement costs go up with the square of length - but you don't need to replace them that often if you're only cruising.
Ditto winches etc.
Unless you get a boat with an outboard, engine maintenance costs ought to be about the same whatever size boat you go for, except smaller boats often have worse access (see the threads of Dylan Winter), and so take longer and incur greater cost.

Anyway, I suspect you know all this, and you know the sensible answer, and you've made your mind up already.

 

[BAtoo]

Out of curiosity what would make a UFO 34 hard to single hand assuming she had a roller furler headsail?

For one thing winching in the large MH foresail....

The bridgedeck mounted traveller if you have a wheel version for another......

 

[Spud 7]

Thanks for all the replies, they're all appreciated.
There is some good advice out there. In regards to some of the boats mentioned and possible alternatives:
Cutless 27, I've sailed regularly, albeit on Windermere and agree it's a lovely little boat, though possibly a little small on interior space.
The Albin Ballad, I've sailed in Cornwall, and really liked the "motion" and general handling of the boat, so that's a definite possibility.
The biggest suprise and I hadn't even gone to view the particular boat was a Halmatic 30 (Didn't sail it but just seemed "right" somehow)
As far as being sensible goes........Does the word go with sailing ?

 

[Twister_Ken]

As far as being sensible goes........Does the word go with sailing ?

Oh yes, as in "He used to be so sensible, but then he started sailing."

 

[Blueboatman]

Tough call but I think William H's advice is not to be dismissed in view of the fact that you have really done quite a lot of sailing.

At the end of the day a small boat is a small boat and you won't be able to punch to weather or powerfully motor vast distances, if say the Med is in your plans?

My only real, practical reservations with the bigger UFO are that the diy fitted-out quality is so very variable, also racing use/abuse varies, so are you ( am I ? ) really qualified to read the signs before buying? It is no good in 12months time realising that actiually the rudder, mast, winches, bulkhead bottoms, ballast, gearbox, etc are all in trouble, unless you plan to earn enough to replace stuff along the way.
So, is this example of a UFO really outstanding?
Shipman with clear evidence of one caring owner would be very resellable and has the advantage of starting life as a well built boat throughout .

 

[Kelpie]

In my totally impartial view, a Vega could fit the bill- bigger than a Co26, cheaper than a Co26, thousands of them about so you can be fussy, and a truly excellent owners' association which, for me, has been a huge benefit.

But I think we all know the OP is going to fall in love with a boat and buy it regardless, which is OK too!

 

[Spud 7]

But I think we all know the OP is going to fall in love with a boat and buy it regardless, which is OK too!

You mean I'm doomed

 

[vyv_cox]

You might like to have a look at the Albin Ballad, similar to UFO 34...

Both share one characteristic with several others of the same era. Those extremely rounded topsides direct waves up and aft, where they descend with unerring instinct right onto the helm's position. This might be tolerable in a racing boat, especially if there is a row of crew on the windward rail taking the brunt of it, but in a cruising boat it is far from pleasurable.

 

[Spud 7]

Well, I've been to see the Shipman, and to be honest quite liked it. Very simple, but what I would describe as a no frills, honest boat. There's some patches of slightly different gel coat where there's been some repairs, but obviously many years ago and there's no sign of movement or deterioration.
It has (but doesn't work) a kind of "central heating" powered by some sort of Catalytic heater. It looks like it would be great if it worked, with little radiator type things in all the cabins. Does anyone know anything about them, and are they "fixable" ?
The only other strange thing for a Swedish boat (to me) is the total lack of ground gear on the foredeck. Not even a bow roller on the front.
How big a problem this would be would obviously depend on how often I'm likely to use it. But I would be tying to a bouy for the odd night at Piel at the very least, and quite like having an anchor "handy" so obviously a bow roller would make life a lot easier. A big job to fit one (read:expensive?)
Thanks in anticipation..

 

[Twister_Ken]

The only other strange thing for a Swedish boat (to me) is the total lack of ground gear on the foredeck. Not even a bow roller on the front.

Not unusual on Baltic boats. They often anchor from the stern and take a line ashore from the bows. My boat's a Swede, and I had to have a bow roller fitted when it arrived in the UK.

 

[Kelpie]

quite like having an anchor "handy" so obviously a bow roller would make life a lot easier. A big job to fit one (read:expensive?)
Thanks in anticipation..

A boat that cannot be anchored is like a car without brakes!
IMHO you should have some sort of workable anchoring setup as a priority. How big a job that is depends on the boat. Perhaps you could deploy an anchor from the stern and then make off the snubber to a strong point on the bow. A palaver to use, though.

 

[Spud 7]

Brings back happy memories of Sweden last year Ken ! (and that's NOT a twister! )
And I have to agree not having the gear to quickly drop the hook does worry me a little, there's not even an anchor locker up front...

 

[Twister_Ken]

The Twister didn't have an anchor locker, just chocks on deck for the hook. There was a chain locker though, just ahead of your tootsies when you were sleeping in the forepeak.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Y.A.C.H.T. - Yet Another Cash Hungry Toy .... and the bigger they are (like teenagers) the more they eat.

Go small and affordable and enjoy yourself. A subsequent upgrade will be yet more fun.

We calculated our base running costs on the following:-

Marina berth combined with winter ashore
+
Antifoul once per year
+
Lift, wash and re-launch
+
Insurance
+
Annual running cost based on 10% of the boat value.

Others may have a better formula or you can adjust the figures based on doing work yourself. My advice would be to get a realistic figure for all of these items and honestly assess if you can afford it. If not, go smaller 'till you're comfortable.

Over-stretch your finances and it's misery all the way to the inevitable fire-sale.

Follow your dream but make sure it is sustainable

 

[fireballxl6]

Coming out of lurk mode for the first time here...

I've just gone through the "first boat" thing and like you, had a list of all sorts of possibles and also one boat that I thought would definitely be the one I would end up with - the Twister.

Long story short... after four or five years training and chartering mainly on a Bavaria 38, found that I couldn't live with the cramped accomodation of the Twister. Dream shattered!

The point is that if I hadn't gone and looked at a couple of Twisters, no matter what I bought, I would have continually been wondering If I had made the right decision.

So you should go and look at your UFO - you never know - it might just confirm that it would be absolutely the wrong boat for you.

What did I buy in the end? A lovely UFO 34 of course! Am I delighted with the boat? Absolutely.

Best of Luck.

Ed

PS +1 for the Halmatic 30 - very nice indeed.

 

[Spud 7]

Fireball, you're NOT helping!!

 

[bobgoode]

How about a compromise on the UFO 34...get the UFO 31 instead? I seem to recall they even did a 27 foot version which is about the same as the Shipman.
By the way make sure you dont get the Shipman with an ofset propshaft.

 

[PeterR]

I raced on Black Arrow, the UFO 34 famous for winning her class in the 79 Fastnet, and later cruised her when she was retired as the RAF’s racing boat. (I did not do the 79 Fastnet as I was crossing the Atlantic at the time). My enduring memories are how badly finished she was inside and how hard-nosed she was. As helmsman it felt as if your arms were 6 inches longer after doing a stint in heavy weather. I also remember the big masthead genoa took a lot of winding in. There is no doubt she would smash her way to windward in a blow but she was a bit of a dog off the wind. She only won her class because there were 7 guys on board who did not get seasick and never stopped racing. Compared to a modern 34 footer (like Twister Kens Arcona) the UFO 34 is quite slow with limited accommodation but at a fraction of the price.

The hulls were bullet proof and if you can find one with a well-finished interior they are still an attractive seaworthy boat for not too much money but if your finances are stretched you might find ongoing maintenance of the heavy-duty rig and associated hardware taxing.

There were occasional signals asking if anyone wanted to race Black Arrow single-handed. No one ever took them up. I guess if you fitted an autohelm and roller reefing it would become a more practical proposition but I would have thought the heavy helm would make it difficult for most tiller pilots to cope unless you drastically reduced sail area. I routinely sail my Dufour 34 single-handed but I would not want to do the same in a UFO34. You may well find someone who is single handing one and says it is not a problem but if that is the sort of sailing you want to do I would make sure you try it rather than just assuming it will be OK for that purpose.