Norwegian frigate - whoops!

[A1Sailor]

I suspect AISailor had tongue in cheek, I'm sure they do look out of the windows occasionally though from recent American and now Norwegian events maybe not often enough - probably not matelots wandering around and I doubt the Captain paces the quarterdeck - though that was indeed the case on a carrier dad was on in WWII.

My recollection of "big ship" bridge watchkeeping from 1985 is that it can all go pear shaped awfully quickly. I was never OOW - just unqualified 2nd OOW scribbling stuff on the map (or is it a chart?) taking fixes and keeping everybody supplied with wets. By the time one had written down a couple of bearings taken on the big fixed compass on one bridge wing and sprinted across the bridge (through the doors) to the other then scribbled some lines by hat was indeed hugely cocked and the ship was now nowhere near where it had been! Radar was used (ranges to fixed points, not bearings) as was Decca. There was a GPS but for some reason it didn't seem to be used/relied upon. There was a compass in the middle of the bridge, which tended to influence your choice of three points to get bearings on!
There was very good visibility from ahead round to about green/red 120 and while there was a window on each side looking "aft" to get a decent view you went outside onto the bridge wings (so out of earshot of the bridge) and you couldn't see anything directly astern.

 

[Poignard]

My recollection of "big ship" bridge watchkeeping from 1985 is that it can all go pear shaped awfully quickly.

As it did 100 years before; spectacularly.

https://www.lookandlearn.com/blog/31781/the-loss-of-h-m-s-victoria-stunned-the-entire-nation/

 

[Impaler]

I was at the Cenotaph on 11 Nov and while hanging about was chatting to some old boys from the Ton Class Association and they told me about the fate of HMS Fittleton. I must have read about it at the time but didn’t recall it. Very sad. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Fittleton_(M1136)

 

[Poignard]

I was at the Cenotaph on 11 Nov and while hanging about was chatting to some old boys from the Ton Class Association and they told me about the fate of HMS Fittleton. I must have read about it at the time but didn’t recall it. Very sad. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Fittleton_(M1136)

Thanks for that sad but fascinating story. I had never heard of it before.

 

[Seajet]

Thanks for that sad but fascinating story. I had never heard of it before.

Same here, thanks for that.

I know it has happened in other situations, but what sort of person could steal from wallets at a time like that...

 

[Blue Sunray]

If only one Officer is pacing the quarter deck. How do you know he will always right about turn. Perhaps it’s a 50 50 chance of a right or left about turn or perhaps it depends on if the Officer is right or left handed.
Does it change in the Southern Hemisphere sphere.
Do Australian officers left about turn

Not sure if that is ignorance or a Wah, but to give you the benefit of the doubt, Australians follow essentially the same drill book as the UK (standfast rifle drill), so they will turn about to the right as we do.

 

[Impaler]

Unless you are on guard outside any royal palace when a left about turn is used so that the soldier does not turn his back on the building.

Not sure if that is ignorance or a Wah, but to give you the benefit of the doubt, Australians follow essentially the same drill book as the UK (standfast rifle drill), so they will turn about to the right as we do.

 

[Uricanejack]

Here you go dudes. The report.

http://www.remi-mongabure.com/index_htm_files/astute_grounding_si_report.pdf

Thanks
I found it very interesting, if a little confusing, not being familiar with submarines the Royal Navy and its terminology. There did seem to be rather a lot of Lt Commanders, some being more important than others.
The Officer up on the Fin was the senior Officer on Watch. The Junior Officer was down bellow at the chart table plotting the submarines position.
Its all about effective communication, or rather ineffective communication. They were all intending to do things well and properly. They just did not communicate very well with each other.
The key communication failure was between the Officer or the Fin and The Officer Plotting. I presume the officer up on the Fin had the conduct of the vessel and he out ranked the Plotter.
The Officer Plotting the ships position. Knew there was something wrong. He Knew the ship was heading for “the beech”. Yet he was unable to communicate this the officer on the Fin. His recommendation to alter course was not complied with. He was unable to get clarification why not.
The Officer on the fin was not getting the information he needed, partly because he was not asking for it. Or giving feed back to why he was not accepting the recommendation from the Plotter and requesting suggesting an alternate option. The result The Officer with the conduct of the vessel did not realise he was heading into shallow water.

For the Plotter. Questioning the decision officer who out ranked him, not easy.

There was an issue with the RADAR on the Fin, no chart, The report didn’t mention how the position being plotted was obtained. I presume the plotter did not have a RADAR or the ability to See. Both were missing key requirements for situational awareness, Which the other had.

Apparently, there was a standing order to call the CO. Which wasn’t done. Again, very interesting question why not.
I do not know Naval protocol. I imagine being a junior officer calling the Captain because you have doubts about the decisions made by the officer in charge of the watch who out ranks you. Would be pretty difficult.

Meanwhile the Executive Officer who presumably outranked both of them was focused on what he was doing. Probably assumed everything was in hand until he had the "OH W!@# T#$ F!@@#" moment when he realised it wasn’t. He took action called the Capt. And probably minimised the damage.

Embarrassing, Yeah
Big picture. nobody was hurt. Probably buffed out. Hopefully all involved learned from it and carried on successfully as Naval Officers.

The KLM 1st Officer or Co Pilot. Probably knew the Captain or Pilot did not have clearance to take off. He had already corrected the Pilot once telling him they did not have clearance. The 2nd time he hesitated and didn’t.
It is both interesting and amazing. KLM changed the airline industry fundamentally. Cockpit Recourse Management became standard. Even so it still happens.

My guess. This incident will come up with similar communication failures. Might not buff out. No body lost. Worse things happen at sea.

 

[A1Sailor]

It should always be crystal clear who "has the ship" - or submarine. The term is used, or at least used to be, at changes of OOW:

I have the Ship

You have the Ship.

...means that the new OOW is happy to assume responsibility, the handover is complete and the new OOW is in place. Up until that point the off-going OOW is still entirely responsible.
See here: https://youtu.be/p__08XWSH_I?t=90
I know that was 40+ years ago and my seatime was 30+ years ago...

I would imagine a submarine, on surfacing, "I have the ship" might change twice as somebody climbs the ladder from the Control Room to the Bridge - but it should always be clear and obvious to everyone present.
During a watch, the Captain or another Officer senior to the OOW may advise or order him/her to do something different - but the OOW still "has the Ship".
Edit: All those on the bridge would/should do what the OOW instructs them. He/she will simply relay the advice or order from the Captain.

If the Captain or other Senior Officer deems the OOW isn't coping he/she may take-over:

I have the Ship

The Captain is always in command, but someone else will often (almost always!) "Have the Ship".

 

[Blue Sunray]

Unless you are on guard outside any royal palace when a left about turn is used so that the soldier does not turn his back on the building.

Ceremonial is not really my thing, but other way round surely?

 

[Seajet]

Very much the same in aircraft;

" You have control "

" I have control "

 

[A1Sailor]

Very much the same in aircraft;

" You have control "

" I have control "

https://youtu.be/-6HYMpmxdaA?t=126

 

[Seajet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lWNZowvWEk

 

[Impaler]

Ha ha, correct, senile moment!

Ceremonial is not really my thing, but other way round surely?

 

[Blue Sunray]

Ha ha, correct, senile moment!

:encouragement: