No RNLI - how would you change your sailing habits

[Sandy]

I sail in areas that have no lifeboats, I climb in areas that have no mountain rescue teams. I take that risk.

 

[WF36]

Down at Lagos Marina, in Portugal:

Tow - In the Marina - € 62 - at sea - € 124,50 / hour (+VAT)

That might make you think twice!

 

[maby]

Glashen,

I for one entirely agree with your sentiments regarding the RNLI and am also an active supporter.

The question as posed, however, was whether their sudden absence would change people's sailing habits, and I believe that those who would answer that question in the affirmative consider them to be less of a last resort than they ought to.

They are, in essence, freely admitting that they do not currently do all they can to maximise their own safe keeping, since if they were doing so, there would be no scope for modifying their habits to further it.

I don't think this is true at all! The sea is a dangerous place and, no matter how hard we try, we can never completely remove that danger. Perhaps the wording of the question is wrong - would the absence of any prospect of rescue in the event of an unanticipated emergency change my sailing life? yes...

 

[Sandy]

If the RNLI weren't there someone else would come along and fish you out... just might cost a bit more.... dont forget... they are only here in the UK and Ireland...

The French also have a lifeboat service.

 

[Flying Penguin]

They are, in essence, freely admitting that they do not currently do all they can to maximise their own safe keeping, since if they were doing so, there would be no scope for modifying their habits to further it.

But how far do you take that? There is almost always scope to modify your habits.

Take the typical (responsible and averagely capable) Solent based day/family boat, they probably have a reasonable selection of flares, VHF (handheld and fixed), a basic EPIRB, a moderately capable liferaft on the coach roof, decent life jackets and they don't go out if the forecast is above F5. They probably won't, under normal circumstances, ever come to any serious harm, they are well prepared and trained for their relatively benign cruising ground.

They would arguably be better prepared if they did rigorous extra own boat training, added things such as float free EPIRB, personal locator beacons, clipped on at all times, day or night, logged their passage plan to Poole with the coastguard etc etc....

So I guess the question is, do you day sail prepared for F10 in the Southern Ocean?

I'm sure most people would think twice if the RNLI suddenly vanished, even if they make the same decision in the end. Whether they would admit to it is another matter.

 

[Stemar]

I'm sure most people would think twice if the RNLI suddenly vanished, even if they make the same decision in the end. Whether they would admit to it is another matter.

'm not too proud to admit to it. I don't think it would make any difference to my decision to leave or not in any paticular conditions, though.

(Still glad they're about - just hope that, from a purely selfish point of view, my subscription is a waste of money!)

 

[Poignard]

I'm sure it would not influence my decision in any way but that is not to say I wouldn't be damned pleased to see them if I got into a siuation where I couldn't save myself!

 

[Evadne]

Another vote for no change, I'm afraid Dylan. I think the RNLI do a fine job and would be missed, but like most on here I sail within my capabilities and well within the capabilities of my boat. The only thing that I'd call them out for is an unforseen catastrophe, and not many of us plan for those.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Theres an often quoted phrase that more wanna be sailors should take to heart:

Every herring should hang by it's own tail.

The RLNI by and large and certainly on an individual basis do a remarkable job and many lives have been saved because of them and we should all be greatfull to them and their sacrifice which tragically on occaisions has been the ultimate one. To suggest however that they are an integral part of ones sailing either in practical reliance or back up planning is foolhardy in the extreme and sailing and the world in general would be well shot of those Darwin award candidates that think and act otherwise.

To answer the question; Not a jot.

 

[Heckler]

Not at all. When I go to sea the possibility of needing the RNLI never enters my head. How can it? You plan your passage on the basis of the information you have that says it's do-able. You don't think "If it goes tits-up the RNLI can come and save me". If you thought it could go tits-up you wouldn't set off in the first place.

+1. it would horrify me if I had to call the RNLI! Trouble is that too many do go to sea thinking, oh if it goes tits up, Ill call the lifeboat.
Stu

 

[jerrytug]

Answer to question,No! The other way round if anything,as written above,never really thought about it before. (The camel driver has his thoughts,and the camel he has his!) J

 

[Heckler]

The French also have a lifeboat service.

And they have the right idea, they charge! Would make those tossers Ive seen being towed in think twice about a bit more maintenance or carrying spare fuel.
Stu

 

[binch]

Two points

When we embarked on our first world cruise, we knew we would seldom be in a life-boat area. The knowledge concentrates the mind.
I was once a lifeboatman, in the forties, when there were not so many spurious services to go out on.
We decided we would cope on our own wherever we were, and checked and re-checked all our gear, got rid of the HF transmitter and went content.
If you cannot call for help, you don't call.
One last point: if no RNLI, who would pay for the rescues?
We had that situation on the east coast pre-RNLI, and the Lowestoft lifeboat (one of the first organised services in the country) was then paid for by salvage. Not that bad. There was a strict code. Save the lives first, then help yourself and share the salvaged gear with the survivors. Think about it.

 

[DownWest]

I think the French save lives for free, but charge for towing the boat.
Most of my sailing in the UK was without radio, so somewhat irrelevent about calling for help. Our opinion of the RNLI was it was for ships and comercial sailors. The idea of needing them was never even considered. So, as for the question. No, never thought about it.

Friend was dismasted (ketch) off Portimao in a gale. Managed to get an anchor to hold (after his first attempt bit hard and snapped the chain...) He managed to lash the rig alongside and decided to call for help. The lifeboat guy replied that it was too rough to come out! A passing navy gunboat heard the exchange and, as it was also trying to get into Portimao, picked him off. Interestingly the helmsman was the only compus crew, the rest were too ill from seasickness. Friend just stepped from his boat onto the other, such was the skill, or luck, of the Navy guy.
He still has a bit of a thing about the lifeboat driver.
DW

 

[Simondjuk]

I don't think this is true at all! The sea is a dangerous place and, no matter how hard we try, we can never completely remove that danger. Perhaps the wording of the question is wrong - would the absence of any prospect of rescue in the event of an unanticipated emergency change my sailing life? yes...

I didn't intend to imply that one could remove all elements of danger by being prepared to the nth degree, merely that a person who would immediately change their sailing habits if the RNLI vanished overnight is consciously relying on them to some degree every time they sail.

I know for a fact my sailing wouldn't change if the RNLI were not about since I often sail where they, or any other SAR service, are not, and I've never once considered the difference, in terms of rescue opportunities, between such area and, say, The Solent.

Your new question is rather a different proposition. Asking me to consider the absence of any prospect of rescue whatsover requires me to consider that if I were adrift in a liferaft mid-ocean and managed to attract the attention of a passing ship with a signal mirror, they would wilfully pass me by. It requires such a shift of mindset away from all that nautical tradition dictates, that I cannot answer easily I'm afraid. It would certainly make me think long and hard about carrying a liferaft I can sail and steer, that's for sure!

 

[Simondjuk]

But how far do you take that? There is almost always scope to modify your habits.

Take the typical (responsible and averagely capable) Solent based day/family boat, they probably have a reasonable selection of flares, VHF (handheld and fixed), a basic EPIRB, a moderately capable liferaft on the coach roof, decent life jackets and they don't go out if the forecast is above F5. They probably won't, under normal circumstances, ever come to any serious harm, they are well prepared and trained for their relatively benign cruising ground.

They would arguably be better prepared if they did rigorous extra own boat training, added things such as float free EPIRB, personal locator beacons, clipped on at all times, day or night, logged their passage plan to Poole with the coastguard etc etc....

So I guess the question is, do you day sail prepared for F10 in the Southern Ocean?

I'm sure most people would think twice if the RNLI suddenly vanished, even if they make the same decision in the end. Whether they would admit to it is another matter.

I see what you mean, and I suppose I mean that those who are most likely never to consider the RNLI as a resource will tend to be slightly over equipped for the particular environment/conditions in which they sail.

 

[maby]

...

Your new question is rather a different proposition. Asking me to consider the absence of any prospect of rescue whatsover requires me to consider that if I were adrift in a liferaft mid-ocean and managed to attract the attention of a passing ship with a signal mirror, they would wilfully pass me by. It requires such a shift of mindset away from all that nautical tradition dictates, that I cannot answer easily I'm afraid. It would certainly make me think long and hard about carrying a liferaft I can sail and steer, that's for sure!

And yet there were people here justifying their assertion that the absence of the RNLI would not change their sailing habits on the basis that if they were not there, someone else would step in to rescue them - which makes a mockery of these suggestions that giving significance to the existence of the RNLI is an indication that you are planning for failure.

I certainly plan for failure - everything we are taught in sailing tells us to do so. We make a passage plan which includes selecting bolt holes for when the weather catches us out. We carry liferafts and bolt croppers to cut away a broken mast. We carry life jackets for when we fall overboard. These are all examples of planning for failure - if I knew I was never going to get into trouble, I would not need to do any of them.

There are plenty of people that knowingly risk their lives - some who do it on purpose for the adrenaline rush - I'm not one of them. If I thought that there was a significant risk that I would die when I went out on my boat, I wouldn't go. Attaching importance to the existence of the RNLI is no different to carrying all the safety equipment that we do, or to selecting alternative ports to run for when the one we were aiming at becomes impossible.

 

[Flying Penguin]

I see what you mean, and I suppose I mean that those who are most likely never to consider the RNLI as a resource will tend to be slightly over equipped for the particular environment/conditions in which they sail.

It's not just that, if the RNLI did go away, we'd be in a situation where the rescue cover would be at best patchy (assuming we still have some local lifeboats), so it could be a perfectly reasonable planning consideration.

As it stands, we know that, broadly, the further you get from land, the less effective the response, but if that situation changed, you could reasonably imagine a situation where two routes are, to all intents and purposes, equal except that one has better rescue coverage, at which point (macho posturing aside) surely general prudence would dictate that the route with better coverage was the sensible plan?

 

[Conachair]

Spent a while a long way from help. It does concentrate your mind for sure.

Much more towards prevention than "what if".



And you get a great tool kit

 

[Simondjuk]

And yet there were people here justifying their assertion that the absence of the RNLI would not change their sailing habits on the basis that if they were not there, someone else would step in to rescue them - which makes a mockery of these suggestions that giving significance to the existence of the RNLI is an indication that you are planning for failure.

Those who hold that specific view do no more than change the wording from 'It's OK, the RNLI will save us if it all goes wrong.' to 'It's OK, someone will save us if it all goes wrong'. Either way, those in that group still have an 'I'll be rescued.' mindset as opposed to a a 'How will I help myself?' mindset. That, to me, is where the two schools differ.

I suppose you could argue that if I'm truly of the 'How will I help myself?' mindset I should already carry a liferaft which I can sail and steer, since I ought to be planning to make my own landfall from where ever I might be forced into the raft and prepared to happily wave away any passing ships in order to do so. I guess, however, there is a limit to what's practical, and we have to accept that, in extremis, there comes a point when seeking and accepting outside assistance is the best, or possibly the only course of action remaining. I suppose that the variable factor is the point at which individuals consider their circumstances to be crossing the line into the extreme.