Newbie Sailor asks about Heads and outlet sizes

[prv]

Another vote for the "cheap loo paper is fine down the head" camp. Use it fairly often by weekends-and-holidays (ie, not liveaboard) standards, and never had a blockage. The plumbing is the smooth butyl-lined type laid with easy curves, so there isn't really much for anything to get stuck on.

We do get the sulphurous pong on first flush, so I simply lean into the compartment and give it a few pumps when coming on board. The smell dissipates and then when it's first used "in anger" with somebody in there, there's no more left to emerge.

Pete

 

[Plum]

Hi,

After 22 years cruising and holidaying around the Pembrokeshire coast with a little motor cruiser equipped with a trusty bucket that my missus finally made friends with, I have bought a 24foot yacht with a manual head.

I have never seen one before up close, and am intending to fit a new one (because I can’t face refurbishing someone else’s head even though it came with a brand new seals kit) and have a delicate question about how exactly do you manage with only a 38mm outflow pipe? Does a manual pump also macerate in some way? I can’t afford a 12v head this year.

I’m thinking that the bucket may not yet be history, if there is any chance I have to strip and clean a blocked head more often than my stomach can take.

Thanks in advance

Chris

Hi, don't worry. I have been using manual Jabsco heads for 30 years and never had a problem with blockage, even though all paper is pumped through too. Even though the outlet hose is 38mm bore, the heads spiggot it goes onto has a bore of only 32mm, which is why some mass produced boats only have 32mm seacocks fitted.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[Jamie Dundee]

38mm (1 1/2”) luxury! My 38mm outlet pipe goes onto a 38mm hose tail which goes through a ..........1 1/4” skin fitting. I only know this as I’ve just changed the seacock and skin fittings and had to send the 38mm skin fitting back as it obviously didn’t fit the hole. As others have said cheapo bog paper goes through ok, I find fitting one of these keeps things sweet Yachticon Head Cleaning System | Force 4 Chandlery

 

[scottie]

Is true or just an urban myth that post Izal toilet Paper soft paper was developed partially due to the US navy’s pressure to hake their submarines less traceable

 

[Daydream believer]

I would remove the pipework & clean it through, or better still replace the lot with a non wired variety specifically marked as sanitary hose. You then know you have a clean start with new hose clamps.
That way you can squeeze it if you get a blockage to try & get it moving. Also if you need to disconnect the pipe to clear a blockage it is more flexible so easier to do..
My pipe was only used for urine for 2 years & the calcium reduced the bore to a point whereby a pencil would just go through. It concentrated at the pump end & at the elbow where it entered the stainless steel blackwater tank. I had to remove the tank to clear the elbow as Acid did not solve the issue

 

[Plum]

I would remove the pipework & clean it through, or better still replace the lot with a non wired variety specifically marked as sanitary hose. You then know you have a clean start with new hose clamps.
That way you can squeeze it if you get a blockage to try & get it moving. Also if you need to disconnect the pipe to clear a blockage it is more flexible so easier to do..
My pipe was only used for urine for 2 years & the calcium reduced the bore to a point whereby a pencil would just go through. It concentrated at the pump end & at the elbow where it entered the stainless steel blackwater tank. I had to remove the tank to clear the elbow as Acid did not solve the issue

Isn't it strange that some people get no calcium buildup at all, get no blockages even when flushing paper and get no smells using normal non-sanitary pvc hoses yet others have totally opposite experiences......

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[Daydream believer]

deleted

 

[Jamie Dundee]

Isn't it strange that some people get no calcium buildup at all, get no blockages even when flushing paper and get no smells using normal non-sanitary pvc hoses yet others have totally opposite experiences......

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

Maybe some of us have more caustic urine than others.......?

 

[Gary Fox]

I can't quite fathom those who put used toilet paper in a bag, and cherish it like a fragment of the True Cross until government-approved disposal facilities are at hand.
If the concern is heads blockages, why not just throw it in the sea like everyone else? There are plenty of hungry mouths waiting to gobble it up, it won't touch the bottom.
Then you can use the double-strength, lavender scented, luxury quilted rolls, win-win!
To the OP, you'll be fine, just use poundshop bog paper and keep pumping, it's lack of seawater pumping, which causes blockages.
Your missus sounds like a keeper, crapping in a bucket on a small boat, my kind of girl

 

[ashtead]

No.... It Is not called Headmistress. It is written by The Headmistress AKA Peggie Hall and the title is:-

GET RID OF BOAT ODORS.

This book is available on line and some marinas in the UK however if you have problems and want the answers from She Who Knows then maybe a visit to Cruisersforum.com will reap rewards where she still appears from time to time.

Yes pleased you remembered as I was somewhat hazy

 

[Bilgediver]

Yes pleased you remembered as I was somewhat hazy

Have a bad memory but a signed copy of her book on my coffee table

 

[pandos]

If your union has been blessed with issue and you have done your fair share of nappy changes there is nothing to worry you in a sea toilet. It's only shit.

I have a rule if you leave sh#ty toilet paper in my boat you go over the side?

When I first saw how narrow outlet pipe was I asked an old guy in the yard about it...his reply "how big is your hole"

But as has been said do not use triple quilted posh loo roll...flush well and slowly...when you are leaving the boat pump some fresh water through it...

And even if it all goes wrong, which it will with the wrong paper, it is only shit and easy enough to deal with...just keep cursing and swearing and wear a pair of gloves....

 

[JumbleDuck]

In our case there can be no dispute as to what causes the short term smell.

It is old seawater introduced after a lay up.

It smells, OK, but the smell come from fecal particles lurking in the pipe.

 

[rotrax]

I dont agree at all.

It only happens for a very short time and only after the stale water is introduced from the seawater inlet pipe.

The Raritan head valve and pump is simple and has better sealing than a Jabsco. White vinegar is also in the bowl when the inlet seawater is introduced, making a water trap. Any smell from fecal material would have to pass backwards through four or five inches of white vinegar. This does not happen from direct observation. The suface of the liquid in the bowl is completely undisturbed. If fecal material or liquid was coming back into the bowl - the only way for smells to reach the boat interior - it would be observed.

With the bowl surface undisturbed, the very moment inlet water is introduced from above the surface of the bowl, the smell comes.

Another fact is that on our previous Island Packet the head inlet valve was the engine seacock, sharing the strainer. The engine was aft, the heads forward. The heads inlet pipe was seven metres. The smell was far longer lasting on that vessel, due, IMHO, to the greater volume of water in the pipe.

The inlet seawater can be the only cause.

On our boat anyway!...................

 

[prv]

The Raritan head valve and pump is simple and has better sealing than a Jabsco.

I'm not familiar with the Raritan, but from pictures it looks to have the same two-sided pump design as the Jabsco. All your talk about what goes on in the bowl is irrelevant - the contact is inside the pump, where the same wall surface touches sewage when the plunger is up, and flush water when it's down. The O-ring on the plunger ensures that visible contamination isn't transferred from one side to the other, but it's wishful thinking to imagine that it cleans bacteria off the pump walls as it slides rapidly past.

The bacteria from the sewage grows in the water in the inlet side of the system while the head isn't in use - certainly in the full pump barrel (presumably you leave the handle down, so the flush side is full and in contact with those contaminated pump walls) and probably back down the inlet pipe, especially if it's left for a long time. Then when you first pump the handle, that bacteria-laden water squirts out and makes the compartment smell.

Presumably a toilet that had completely separate pumps for flush and waste would avoid the problem, but there are few if any of those made.

Pete

 

[38mess]

The only way I could get rid of the nasty pong from the head in the new to me boat was to change the pipes. I kept it pong free for a few years by pumping it through for a few minutes after every trip.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Isn't it strange that some people get no calcium buildup at all, get no blockages even when flushing paper and get no smells using normal non-sanitary pvc hoses yet others have totally opposite experiences......

I presume that some people (or their crews/guests) just don't pump enough.

 

[Gary Fox]

Blakes heads have separate inlet and outlet pumps and pipes. The seawater in the inlet pipes smells a bit eggy on first use after a few weeks, it's caused by trillions of plankton, viruses and bacteria dying in the inlet pipe. Nothing to do with poopal contamination.

 

[JumbleDuck]

With the bowl surface undisturbed, the very moment inlet water is introduced from above the surface of the bowl, the smell comes.

That's exactly what I would expect. The smell comes from the inlet water, which has fecal particles in it unless you give the whole system a jolly good pumping in moving water. The outlet water isn't the issue.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Presumably a toilet that had completely separate pumps for flush and waste would avoid the problem, but there are few if any of those made.

I think the Baby Blake does, and the SL400/1 used opposite sides of the same diaphragm which is just as good. And of course the Lavac only has the one pump. However, in my experience the main cause of inlet contamination is simply that it sucks in from the discharge cloud around the outlet.