Newbie Sailor asks about Heads and outlet sizes

[rotrax]

Having been thinking about this for some time I researched into lots of 'toilet smell' threads and posts on the iphomeport. The 'go to' forum for Island Packet owners.

It appears that smells disappear completely when fresh water flush is used. Many of the larger IP's use freshwater flush or have been so modified.

If fecal contamination IS causing the inlet seawater to smell, it follows inlet freshwater would be equally compromised.

Unless anyone knows otherwise?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Having been thinking about this for some time I researched into lots of 'toilet smell' threads and posts on the iphomeport. The 'go to' forum for Island Packet owners.

It appears that smells disappear completely when fresh water flush is used. Many of the larger IP's use freshwater flush or have been so modified.

If fecal contamination IS causing the inlet seawater to smell, it follows inlet freshwater would be equally compromised.

Only if the contamination is coming past the pump. Otherwise if the fresh water is being drawn from a tank, rather than from an inlet a few feet at most from a pipe pumping out feces, then any fecal contamination is more of a problem than a whiffy toilet.

 

[Gary Fox]

Does seawater, with 100's of billions of dead plankton, bacteria and viruses per pint, plus fish crap, rotting seaweed, etc etc, stay smelling sweet for weeks in a closed pipe?

 

[pvb]

Does seawater, with 100's of billions of dead plankton, bacteria and viruses per pint, plus fish crap, rotting seaweed, etc etc, stay smelling sweet for weeks in a closed pipe?

No.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Some time ago I collected some seawater from a beach away from any marina with the intension to test my hand held desalinator but I never got round to it after a while I opened the sealed 20 liter container and it stunk to high haven so in my "test" the raw seawater did start to smell unlike Viv's test.

 

[rotrax]

Only if the contamination is coming past the pump. Otherwise if the fresh water is being drawn from a tank, rather than from an inlet a few feet at most from a pipe pumping out feces, then any fecal contamination is more of a problem than a whiffy toilet.

Yes, understood completely.

Our boat is currently berthed alongside in the fastest flowing river in England, the Arun.

Tidal flow at Springs is 3.5 KTS, about 2 knots at Neaps. Currently faster with high levels of floodwater in the river. That is at our location. Much faster in the Narrows of course, 5 KTS plus. Never seems slack for very long because of the high flow of river water.

Our inlet is almost 3 metres from the outlet, with a long keel in between.

With flows like that past the outlet, the inlet is unlikely to draw in fecal contamination from our own vessel.

When alongside at our berth we only wee into the heads - the Shower/Toilet block is 50 but yards away.

We only get the sulphur dioxide type smell when introducing stale seawater into a bowl, pump and pipe/seacock system that has been sitting with 3 litres of white vinegar in it.

I dont buy anything other than smelly, stale, dead bug infested seawater.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I dont buy anything other than smelly, stale, dead bug infested seawater.

Thanks. This probably needs further investigation. From personal observation I can report that if I take assiduous care to have only the cleanest seawater in the inlet (On a trip: lots of pumping after No 2, wait a bit, then lots of pumping again; Before leaving: lots of pumping as we move through the water) I don't get a ghost of a smell from the toilet when it's next used. A short pump after No 2 will produce a rotten eggs smell within a day.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Thanks. This probably needs further investigation. From personal observation I can report that if I take assiduous care to have only the cleanest seawater in the inlet (On a trip: lots of pumping after No 2, wait a bit, then lots of pumping again; Before leaving: lots of pumping as we move through the water) I don't get a ghost of a smell from the toilet when it's next used. A short pump after No 2 will produce a rotten eggs smell within a day.

That’s exactly our experience too.

 

[rotrax]

Perhaps this is where the back and forwards confusion has been.

During up to 5 months aboard our boat, head in constant use no sulphur dioxide smell. Ever.

Other smells, of course, natural smells from human waste products. Cleared the way you clear your head.

The only sanitizer ever used is white vinegar, a little once a fortnight perhaps. The Raritan advises use of its own product which costs more than single malt whisky in the UK. I get 20 litres of white vinegar delivered for 16 quid.

Only time we get the smell is after more than a week with the head out of use. The smell is immediate - the moment inlet seawater hits the bowl. It quickly disperses through the open portlight.

The time the smell exists appears to be directly linked to the amount of seawater introduced. Our previous boat with a very long inlet hose suffered far more duration of smell than the current boat with just over a metre of inlet pipe.

All of which leads me to my conlusion.

Your boat may, of course, behave differently.

 

[Rocksteadee]

Toilet paper: bin it and bag it.
1. it is easier to explain to guests. Had to clear 3m of compressed blocked pipe as they thought if toilet paper was ok then so were wet wipes.
2. Whilst most stuff will sink, numerous squares of toilet paper 3 miles out floating by, do not sink.
3. If there is any macerator, either elec toilet or holding tank pump out, this will shred toilet paper down to fine strands and effectively pack themselves around the chopper blade. Add that to calcium build up and even had to use a hacksaw to remove..

The smell from the inlet pipe is due to fecal bacteria and probably sea water containing decomposing micro organisms etc.
I have the awful elec macerator with pump in and out on the same shaft so gives a bleed back from outlet to inlet.
The inlet pipe then becomes ‘infected‘ by virtue of the foul water seeping into the microscopic pours surface of the pipe. Sanitary pipe should stop this by being non porous but any contamination or scaling in the pipe is porous.
only real way to cure it is by replacing with new pipe.
I tried this today to discover that I would have to remove the entire inside of the heads, walls, shower, ceiling.
So have filled pipe with lime scale remover in the hope tomorrow will have cleaned the pipe.
Now looking at a new head with a separate pump in, still on sea water as fresh water tank is not big enough

 

[LittleSister]

Definitely the normal cause of pong when the head is first pumped after being left for some days or longer, is deceased creatureage in the inlet pipe. (If I remember correctly, once the critters have used up the free oxygen in the water enclosed in the inlet pipe, they die. Once dead, they decay and the water smells bad.) Fortunately, it's easily solved, as all it takes is a few pumps (and moments) to get the bad smelling water through until you have 'fresh' seawater being drawn into the toilet.

As others have said, this dead creature pong happens with Lavacs and other designs that have no connection at all between inlet and outlet, so it ain't fecal contamination.

It doesn't happen if the toilet is used every day, as the creatures in the water are still alive.

Having limited holding tank capacity shouldn't usually be a problem in this regard, as if you are using that tank (e.g. in an anchorage) you are presumably regularly using the toilet and the water is never sitting in the pipe long enough for the problem to arise.

Of course, the fact that it's dead creatures causing this problem, doesn't mean you can't also have another problem with fecal contamination, or pipework become porous, or outlet etc. leaks.

 

[RichardS]

Definitely the normal cause of pong when the head is first pumped after being left for some days or longer, is deceased creatureage in the inlet pipe. (If I remember correctly, once the critters have used up the free oxygen in the water enclosed in the inlet pipe, they die. Once dead, they decay and the water smells bad.) Fortunately, it's easily solved, as all it takes is a few pumps (and moments) to get the bad smelling water through until you have 'fresh' seawater being drawn into the toilet.

As others have said, this dead creature pong happens with Lavacs and other designs that have no connection at all between inlet and outlet, so it ain't fecal contamination.

It doesn't happen if the toilet is used every day, as the creatures in the water are still alive.

Having limited holding tank capacity shouldn't usually be a problem in this regard, as if you are using that tank (e.g. in an anchorage) you are presumably regularly using the toilet and the water is never sitting in the pipe long enough for the problem to arise.

Of course, the fact that it's dead creatures causing this problem, doesn't mean you can't also have another problem with fecal contamination, or pipework become porous, or outlet etc. leaks.

Put some seawater into an old bottle. Seal the bottle. Smell bottle after time has passed.

The limited anti-bacterial properties of sodium chloride are presumably doing the work.

Richard