Newbie Sailor asks about Heads and outlet sizes

[Dellquay13]

Hi,

After 22 years cruising and holidaying around the Pembrokeshire coast with a little motor cruiser equipped with a trusty bucket that my missus finally made friends with, I have bought a 24foot yacht with a manual head.

I have never seen one before up close, and am intending to fit a new one (because I can’t face refurbishing someone else’s head even though it came with a brand new seals kit) and have a delicate question about how exactly do you manage with only a 38mm outflow pipe? Does a manual pump also macerate in some way? I can’t afford a 12v head this year.

I’m thinking that the bucket may not yet be history, if there is any chance I have to strip and clean a blocked head more often than my stomach can take.

Thanks in advance

Chris

 

[pvb]

Welcome to the forums!

An ordinary marine toilet (eg Jabsco Twist'n'Lock) will work fine. Yes, pumping does inevitably provide some maceration, but it's a good idea not to put anything in the toilet which hasn't first been eaten. Toilet paper, etc, should be placed in a bin and disposed of in general waste.

 

[Dellquay13]

thanks pvb,
I thought it must work, because so many people have them. I can put up with binning none organic waste more than the thought of blocked pipes, it’s common when holidaying in Greece after all.

 

[Caer Urfa]

Used a Jabsco 'Twist and Lock' for years no problem, use it often and no smells or just flush it every time your aboard and as PVB says just tell people not to put anything stupid in it like disposable baby nappies and sanitary items

 

[Never Grumble]

Lentils help everything pass through smoothly. All joking aside we bag up toilet paper rather than it going up/down the pipe. Nappy bags from one of the supermarkets. Down know why you should worry about refurbishing a used heads as I'm sure their s**t stinks much the same as yours.

 

[Dellquay13]

Thanks CU and NG
That’s pretty much allayed my fears, I’ll be careful with what goes in and flush well with fresh water at the end of the day.
The head looks like the ‘worst bog in the world’ from the film trainspotting, I think the previous owner couldn’t face the refurb either and left it for years.
Chris

 

[ashtead]

Welcome -if you haven’t found it already in your browsing I believe there is a book called headmistress for those are new to the delights of such matters . If servicing your jabsco it’s sometimes better to buy a complete pump unit when that time comes around as it surely well. If you are fitting a new head I would buy some new quality pipe and a freshwater feed if space permits.

 

[RJJ]

Hi - yes it works fine.

Some people say "no loo roll". We say "3 slices of loo roll per flush" and have never had a problem. Stick to ordinary loo roll - none of that posh quilted stuff. Any baby wipe, however, is guaranteed to give you a blockage.

It's important to use a vast quantity of flushes to clear not only the bowl, but the pipes. The manual tells you how much - I think it's 7 flushes per meter of hose. That's the best protection against smelly build-up. Then it's advisable to conclude your weekend/trip/voyage with a good fresh water flush to keep the smells at bay. If you don't, then your first flush or two will smell (harmlessly) of rotten eggs.

That said, there's plenty to be said for a bucket!

 

[pvb]

Then it's advisable to conclude your weekend/trip/voyage with a good fresh water flush to keep the smells at bay. If you don't, then your first flush or two will smell (harmlessly) of rotten eggs.

Putting fresh water in the bowl and pumping it out won't affect the potential for the "rotten egg" smell. The smell is caused by seawater in the intake pipe.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Putting fresh water in the bowl and pumping it out won't affect the potential for the "rotten egg" smell. The smell is caused by seawater in the intake pipe.

More than that ... it's caused by contaminated water (from the outlet) in the intake. Normal seawater doesn't become smelly when sealed away - Vyv Cox did some tests on this a few years back. I find that a jolly good pumping while under way on the way back home is enough to prevent any whiffs the next time we use the boat.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I have never seen one before up close, and am intending to fit a new one (because I can’t face refurbishing someone else’s head even though it came with a brand new seals kit) and have a delicate question about how exactly do you manage with only a 38mm outflow pipe? Does a manual pump also macerate in some way?

Yes. The contents of the bowl are pumped through a "joker valve", a non-return valve which also munches the poo on its way through, so what emerges is more or less the consistency of porridge and rapidly disperses in seawater.

Some people get their jollies from carrying bags of used toilet paper around. I prefer to keep my friends (Lord knows there are few enough of them) and have never had any problems as a result of flushing the stuff. I always buy cheap and nasty (Happy Shopper is particularly good/bad) so if you are not at risk of a push-through during use you are probably buying too posh.

If your union has been blessed with issue and you have done your fair share of nappy changes there is nothing to worry you in a sea toilet. It's only shit.

 

[RupertW]

Hi - yes it works fine.

Some people say "no loo roll". We say "3 slices of loo roll per flush" and have never had a problem. Stick to ordinary loo roll - none of that posh quilted stuff. Any baby wipe, however, is guaranteed to give you a blockage.

It's important to use a vast quantity of flushes to clear not only the bowl, but the pipes. The manual tells you how much - I think it's 7 flushes per meter of hose. That's the best protection against smelly build-up. Then it's advisable to conclude your weekend/trip/voyage with a good fresh water flush to keep the smells at bay. If you don't, then your first flush or two will smell (harmlessly) of rotten eggs.

That said, there's plenty to be said for a bucket!

Your post might partly explain why people fall into the ”No loo roll” camp or not, and I’d never really thought about it that way before.

Our instructions to guests are crystal clear, “Loo roll and anything not eaten in the pedal bin. Only flush just enough to make everything cleanly disappear. Do not keep flushing.” And that’s because the most precious resource is the size of the holding tank, allowing a weeks stay in an anchorage not just a couple of days.

Without a holding tank to clog up and with lots of flushing for every bit of paper it’s completely different, but I guess you have to use marina loos.

 

[Bilgediver]

Welcome -if you haven’t found it already in your browsing I believe there is a book called headmistress for those are new to the delights of such matters . If servicing your jabsco it’s sometimes better to buy a complete pump unit when that time comes around as it surely well. If you are fitting a new head I would buy some new quality pipe and a freshwater feed if space permits.

No.... It Is not called Headmistress. It is written by The Headmistress AKA Peggie Hall and the title is:-

GET RID OF BOAT ODORS.

This book is available on line and some marinas in the UK however if you have problems and want the answers from She Who Knows then maybe a visit to Cruisersforum.com will reap rewards where she still appears from time to time.

 

[Bilgediver]

Your post might partly explain why people fall into the ”No loo roll” camp or not, and I’d never really thought about it that way before.

Our instructions to guests are crystal clear, “Loo roll and anything not eaten in the pedal bin. Only flush just enough to make everything cleanly disappear. Do not keep flushing.” And that’s because the most precious resource is the size of the holding tank, allowing a weeks stay in an anchorage not just a couple of days.

Without a holding tank to clog up and with lots of flushing for every bit of paper it’s completely different, but I guess you have to use marina loos.

I have used the cheap Tesco brand of Loo Paper for years and sometimes in generous amounts and never had a blockage as it does break down PDQ. However it can be a problem weening some of our better halves away from the super soft multi layered quilted variety which is banned on my boat and also frowned on by The Headmistress. You can buy marine loo paper at an exorbitant price however it is very similar to the cheap supermarket variety of which Tesco seems most suitable, It is always at the opposite end of the shelf to Super Duper Frag ranted Multiquilted variety. Morrison's Sainsbury and others do similar.

 

[Quandary]

I notice that the Andrex puppy is doing its bit to reduce paper consumption by almost doubling the diameter of the cardboard tube in the middle.

 

[dankilb]

My Nan (now in her 90s) could tell you where 2-ply toilet roll could be found all around the Solent/I-o-W, such was her expertise in keeping their Lavac happy back in the day!

 

[rotrax]

More than that ... it's caused by contaminated water (from the outlet) in the intake. Normal seawater doesn't become smelly when sealed away - Vyv Cox did some tests on this a few years back. I find that a jolly good pumping while under way on the way back home is enough to prevent any whiffs the next time we use the boat.

Oh yes it does!

I ALWAYS put almost 3 litres of white vinegar down our Raritan manual heads when the boat is left for more than a few days. The vinegar is pumped into the outlet pipe, until it levels off at the bottom of the bowl. There is a distinct 'chip shop' smell, and the outlet pipe is pretty much full of vinegar, almost up to the seacock.

How do I know? I measured EXACTLY how much liquid can be held in 4.3 metres of outlet pipe. I put more than enough in.

The Inlet pipe is very short, less than a metre. It has a lovely Bronze Perko or Groco American inlet strainer fitted directly onto the seacock.

So, seawater is trapped between the inlet seacock and toilet valve, about a litre and a half with the strainer during the time the boat is out of use.

Vinegar is trapped between the outlet seacock and the toilet valve, unique vinegar smell. The vinegar fizzes gently when first poured in, keeps the white build up softish on the bore of the pipe and the bowl very clean of build up caused by the well known seawater/urine combination.

When we return to the vessel I recommision the heads, First job is to open the heads portlight to clear the 'chip shop' smell, not much, but it is there if the lid is lifted. Next I open both the inlet and outlet seacocks. No new smell at all. The bowl has white vinegar in and has a discrete pong of that.

However, the moment I open the toilet valve and introduce seawater - the by now perhaps three week old seawater from the inlet strainer and pipe - immediate nasty smell.

As the only element that does not have a vinegar smell is the incoming stale seawater, I am totally convinced that it comes from dead organisms in that inlet seawater. As the heads portlight is open this nasty smell soon dissapears. Five minutes or so.

Once the head is in regular use, up to 5 months at a time, no more smell.

In our case there can be no dispute as to what causes the short term smell.

It is old seawater introduced after a lay up.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Yes. The contents of the bowl are pumped through a "joker valve", a non-return valve which also munches the poo on its way through, so what emerges is more or less the consistency of porridge and rapidly disperses in seawater.

Some people get their jollies from carrying bags of used toilet paper around. I prefer to keep my friends (Lord knows there are few enough of them) and have never had any problems as a result of flushing the stuff. I always buy cheap and nasty (Happy Shopper is particularly good/bad) so if you are not at risk of a push-through during use you are probably buying too posh.

Slang fora push through = ‘A brown ballerina”

I have used the cheap Tesco brand of Loo Paper for years and sometimes in generous amounts and never had a blockage as it does break down PDQ. However it can be a problem weening some of our better halves away from the super soft multi layered quilted variety which is banned on my boat and also frowned on by The Headmistress. You can buy marine loo paper at an exorbitant price however it is very similar to the cheap supermarket variety of which Tesco seems most suitable, It is always at the opposite end of the shelf to Super Duper Frag ranted Multiquilted variety. Morrison's Sainsbury and others do similar.

In over thirty years of using various heads, I’ve never blocked one myself and only occasionally had to unblock one. MODERATE amounts of toilet paper and LOTS of pumping is the norm.
This assumes you’re not using a holding tank, in which case the rule change is ‘minimise the pumping’ (but you can still use moderate amounts of loo roll.)

 

[Dellquay13]

thanks all,

the tips about flushing 7x p/m of pipe, and flushing the inlet with fresh sea water underway are helpful.
I don't have a holding tank, so don't have to worry about too much flushing. The explanation about the joker valve makes a lot of sense, although it may make me look differently at my readybrek.
I've haven't been near a soiled nappy since it was me doing the soiling, so cleaning out someone else's head that has been bunged up for a few seasons is filling me with dread, hence just buy a cheap new one.

 

[jamie N]

Pump and pump and pump again. I've had to clear my Jabsco once, because I didn't pump enough and had a posh bog paper.
There's a lesson learnt......