Newbee question: What is "boat / vessel coding"

[Skipper Felice]

Hi All
In many posts and information parts I have seen the request for "boat coding". What does this mean / how is this done?
It seems to be a requirement for charter or professional use of a vessel?

Thank you very much for an explanation or an official reference.

 

[Tranona]

Yes. Most states set requirements for both boats and skippers for commercial use. Inevitably they are more stringent than those for private boats. The term "Code" is a shorthand that derives from the fact that in the UK (and many other maritime states) there are different levels or codes usually based on factors such as size and type of boat, number of passengers and area of operation. In the UK there are essentially 3 codes for seagoing charter boats depending on distance from safe harbour. It can be expensive to equip a normal leisure boat for commercial use depending on the boat and specific usage plus annual inspection and minm maintenance schedules. Most of the Med countries also licence charter operators and may limit numbers.

Very few people with your size and type of boat do chartering because there is little demand (who wants a 20 year old boat when the whole idea of chartering is to play the millionaire for a week or two). Usually those that do work through an agency who handles all the boring stuff of finding punters and dealing with the paperwork. In the smaller size range (sub 50' or so) most charter work in the Med is with sailing boats which can safely be operated by the charterer without a skipper.

 

[Skipper Felice]

Very few people with your size and type of boat do chartering because there is little demand (who wants a 20 year old boat when the whole idea of chartering is to play the millionaire for a week or two). Usually those that do work through an agency who handles all the boring stuff of finding punters and dealing with the paperwork. In the smaller size range (sub 50' or so) most charter work in the Med is with sailing boats which can safely be operated by the charterer without a skipper.

Ok - thank you, this clarifies my understanding. Regarding the Med and Italy: Where can I find the regulations or requirements for Italy? Perhaps some of the experts around here have some links or names?

My understandig of taking some guests for some vacation days on your own, private peasure craft is NO "commercial charter" - and doing this is no regular, commercial business. If I command a boat as a skipper, this vessel will never leave the harbour without every high standard safety equipment for all crew/guests on board in perfect condition and with instructions to each member. What they pay is for food, drinks, prosecco, beer, rum ... a bed/cabin to sleep, some learning of nature, sea and seamanship and the energy ... swimming, sun and fun is for free )

 

[PlanB]

The authorities and your insurer, sadly, may not agree with your definition of taking paying guests.
I suggest you Google "Italy Marine Coding" - there are many sources, including official ones, there.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

...
What they pay is for food, drinks, prosecco, beer, rum ... a bed/cabin to sleep, some learning of nature, sea and seamanship and the energy ...

Depends a lot on who the guests are. Your own friends who bring or pay for some supplies is fine, that's a day out with your mates. Taking money from strangers who come out on your boat is commercial charter regardless of how you present it.

 

[westernman]

Am I right in thinking that if you wish to charter out a yacht in most countries, you need that yacht to be commercially registered in that country?
I.e. you cannot charter out a yacht in France which is UK flagged?

 

[jfm]

Am I right in thinking that if you wish to charter out a yacht in most countries, you need that yacht to be commercially registered in that country?
I.e. you cannot charter out a yacht in France which is UK flagged?

Fraid not. Coding requirements generally follow flag, not the country you’re in. You can charter a uk flagged boat in France (indeed there are almost zero French flagged super yachts and France is one of the biggest summer charter locations in the world). There are exceptions eg Croatia requires Croatia flag iirc.

To skipper felice, I repeat the other posts above: whatever you might think, your proposals above are generally commercial charter under the law (and should be!).

 

[jfm]

My understandig of taking some guests for some vacation days on your own, private peasure craft is NO "commercial charter" - and doing this is no regular, commercial business. If I command a boat as a skipper, this vessel will never leave the harbour without every high standard safety equipment for all crew/guests on board in perfect condition and with instructions to each member. What they pay is for food, drinks, prosecco, beer, rum ... a bed/cabin to sleep, some learning of nature, sea and seamanship and the energy ... swimming, sun and fun is for free )

100% incorrect, and you would be getting into criminal offence territory, police, jail, etc. Don’t do it!

 

[roa312]

I believe it is quite common for ocean sailors to request a daily fee or payment when inviting crew onboard. I have often seen this mentioned in listings on various Facebook groups etc. and I note that the fees can vary significantly! I just now checked the ARC / World Cruising Club website, and they also reference this practice (see highlight in the snippet below). However, I have no understanding of whether this is legal or not. It wouldn’t surprise me if many boat owners and crew are not well-informed about the regulations or laws regarding this.

@Skipper Felice : My comment here is solely intended to contribute to the discussion and is definitely not meant to inspire or encourage you to circumvent the advice provided above!


Source - World Cruising Club

 

[dunedin]

I believe it is quite common for ocean sailors to request a daily fee or payment when inviting crew onboard. I have often seen this mentioned in listings on various Facebook groups etc. and I note that the fees can vary significantly! I just now checked the ARC / World Cruising Club website, and they also reference this practice (see highlight in the snippet below). However, I have no understanding of whether this is legal or not. It wouldn’t surprise me if many boat owners and crew are not well-informed about the regulations or laws regarding this.

@Skipper Felice : My comment here is solely intended to contribute to the discussion and is definitely not meant to inspire or encourage you to circumvent the advice provided above!

View attachment 186101
Source - World Cruising Club

There are two differnt types of things happening on the ARC
- The text you highlighted refers to “pay to get yourself to the boat” -ie pay your own flights to Gran Canaria and back from St Lucia, which is fine - and “you may also be asked for a contribution towards costs on board” is probably OK for a private boat, PROVIDED the costs your are contributing to are things like your share of food, drink etc. NOT if they ask for a cash voyage fee.
- There are also many commercial boats doing paid for berths - but these are commercial operations and the boats should be fully coded, staff qualified, commercial insurance etc. There are some grey areas with boats claiming to be racing, but they are definitely borderline and n/a to a motor yacht.
Trying to do “under the radar” commercial charter guests in the Med is not likely to end well, as local operators paying high costs for their own coding and other requirements are likely to to shop any illegal competitors.

 

[westernman]

My boat used to be coded. I did not renew it (needs a yearly inspection as over 15m). I am sure I was checked on the by the MCA in the med the next year. A British lady I had never seen before was very insistent that I should take her out for a ride for the afternoon. I think it was a test.

When I told her no way, and if I were to do that the boat would have to be coded - i.e. certified, which it no longer is and I would have to have a commercial license which I don't she toddled off and wrote something down in her clipboard.

 

[Skipper Felice]

... Trying to do “under the radar” commercial charter guests in the Med is not likely to end well, as local operators paying high costs for their own coding and other requirements are likely to to shop any illegal competitors.

Thanks to all posters above - I fully understand and I will try to study the law and the situation:

I also know, that MANY Owners of motor yachts around the Med. offer "skippered charter" or "education on motoryachting" on a private basis and I know, they have no registration or any coding.
Look perhaps on many offers around Boot mieten & Yachtcharter | zu den besten Preisen ... most private and most of them perhaps no coding.
Skippers from Switzerland: Carezza blu Yachting (yacht under Polish flag, full insurance, normal private owner (swiss company), swiss contract ...)
other / same examle Angebote/Buchen and I know they are cruising since many years.

 

[jfm]

Interesting tale westernan, thanks.

 

[DavidJ]

My boat used to be coded. I did not renew it (needs a yearly inspection as over 15m). I am sure I was checked on the by the MCA in the med the next year. A British lady I had never seen before was very insistent that I should take her out for a ride for the afternoon. I think it was a test.

When I told her no way, and if I were to do that the boat would have to be coded - i.e. certified, which it no longer is and I would have to have a commercial license which I don't she toddled off and wrote something down in her clipboard.

Maybe just wrote you off as a potential stud

 

[westernman]

Maybe just wrote you off as a potential stud

No way!

 

[jfm]

Dunedin is correct.
The law allows non coding if (a) the money is merely a contribution to variable costs of the voyage in question ie with no margin profit element, and (b) the payers are friends/family.

Both elements an and b must be present for non coded money to be legal, though it’s hard to imagine prosecution under just (b) because it’s hard to define “friend”.

The ARC thing seems to be trying to fit in this exemption. OP seemed to be contemplating more money changing hands than this.

 

[ylop]

Both elements an and b must be present for non coded money to be legal, though it’s hard to imagine prosecution under just (b) because it’s hard to define “friend”.

I don’t think a court would actually find it that hard to work out if someone is a friend or a customer:

- had they ever met before the trip
- could the skipper tell the investigator anything about the “friend” like family, kids, job, where they live, etc
- before they stepped on board would the “customer” have described the skipper as a friend
- at the start of the trip would the customer and skipper ever have expected to meet again in another context
- how did the friend get invited on the trip, how was the cost agreed and paid

Of course the “friend” wording is from UK law, it may well be that Swiss, Italian or any other applicable rules define pleasure vessel and charter differently - but the U.K. is one of the most relaxed when it comes to boating bureaucracy so it is unlikely there are many places where dressing up customers as friends would be acceptable. In some places you might get away with it for a long time - perhaps until something goes wrong.

 

[DavidJ]

It all changes when your “friend” has a life changing accident on your boat.
Enough said

 

[PaulRainbow]

I seem to recall you cannot charge your friends or family an up front amount. You could go shopping and split the bill, you can book into a marina and split the berthing fees and at the end of the trip you can ask for a share of the fuel you used. You cannot guess the above and charge a lump sum before departure.

 

[benjenbav]

Trying to game the system with fee-paying artificial friends? Problem is, if one of them gets hurt, they won’t play along with the friendship angle and you’ll get to meet serious folk in positions of authority for whom this will not be their first rodeo.

Research the rules and comply before you do any charter.