Steve C Cronin
N/A
Or, to borrow another from Mr Hugo, "laughter is the sun that drives winter from the human face."
You lot, stealing MY money is NO laughing matter!
New tax for foreign yachts based in Greece from 1st January 2014????
- Thread starter Chatelaine60
- Start date
You lot, stealing MY money is NO laughing matter!
grumpygit
Well-known member
The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled - public debt should be reduced - the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled - and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed: lest Rome will become bankrupt."
People must again learn to work instead of living on public assistance."
- Cicero , 55 BC
................ So, evidently, we've learnt bugger all over the past 2,068 years.
Al.
New member
Can you send this to David Cameron ! :encouragement:
nimbusgb
Active member
That numpty thinks he's Caesar and is working on the 'Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars' principle.
Bertramdriver
Active member
Rather him and his mates than the "We need to spend more to get out of this recession" Milliband/ balls up crew.
nimbusgb
Active member
Too right! 'Frying pan' and 'fires of hell' spring to mind!
nickf
Member
I think I must of ended up in the lounge by mistake!
Steve C Cronin
N/A
You "must of"!
Sybarite
Well-known member
For a bit of perspective, the annual vignette for Switzerland is less than the "péage" between Paris and Geneva.
Peio64
Member
The right comparison would be : "If I fly (with my private jet) from here to Venice via either [....blah] I am not supposed to pay any tax for crossing Swiss or Austrian air space"
...And if you do it with your ULM from some friend's land to another friend's land (i.e. avoiding airports), you will have to pay no tax at all. This "wild" ULM ride can be directly compared to the cruise of a small sailing yacht from some wild bay to another wild bay through Greek waters. Unfortunately and contrary to the ULM or the private jet, this small yacht will be taxed for nothing more than "circulation" and "landing".
Peio
Peio64
Member
...And I forgot to add that you are right : if you keep your car in a garage in Zurich or Innsbruck, you have no "vignette" to pay. But if you keep your boat mooring in a marina (for example in Lefkas or Pythagorion), you will have to pay the tax as "circulating" yachts do (plus the "garage" and the 23% Greek VAT on the "garage", indeed !)
On the basis of your own comparison, do you realize now how much this tax is insane ?
Peio
BrianH
Active member
To lay this absurd camparison to rest, the Swiss and Austrian vignette is for Autobahn (motorway) driving only. Plenty of residents in rural areas do not buy and display a vignette as they only drive on local (but still good) roads. There are also many cars circulating in towns and cities without a vignette because they do not use the Autobahn.
nimbusgb
Active member
I happen to think it's far from insane. They have every right to raise taxes in any way they see fit. I keep my boat in Preveza, ashore so will only have to pay ( apparently ) for my time afloat. Unfortunately I only spend a few weeks afloat so will pay more than some very big boats on a week by week basis which is my objection.
You have every right as a visitor or potential visitor to a country to leave 'on principle' or leave because it is really uneconomical or just because you don't like the idea. One thing I'm certain of though is that telling a Greek, any Greek that his ideas are 'insane' will get you precisely nowhere!
I said it very early in the thread ( or on another ) that on a day by day basis just over €1 per day for the pleasure of sailing in Greece is a bargain and I certainly wouldn't object to paying it. I do object to paying €20 per day just because I only sail for a few weeks and can't pay for just that time.
truscott
Member
I'm sorry, where did you find this confirmed? Having been following this issue here, on the CA site and over on the Cruisers Forum, this has been posited by a few, but never, IIRC, confirmed!
Would make a HUGE difference for many boats if you would share this if it you have some official info. We have cancelled our move to Greece precisely because the Marina's that we were discussing this issue with, could/would not confirm that this is the case!
For now, we're staying in Turkey.
Cheers, PT
Edit: Apologies, I missed the "(apparently)" part even though it was staring me in the face! Please disregard.
jimbaerselman
New member
The law, as written, applies to boats in Greek waters, afloat, moored or anchored. Because there is no mention of boats ashore does not necessarily mean that boats ashore are also taxed.
Boats ashore include boats under construction, being repaired, being modified, being transported, being broken up, and deserted as wrecks. The two previous similar laws published (now replaced by this tax) excepted these categories specifically, and referred to boats "in use in Greek waters" instead.
There is no reason to believe that boats ashore will be taxed, other than a will to paint a blacker picture. In the same way, there is no reason to believe that patrol boats will flag down passing vessels en route through Greek waters to Turkey in order to break the rules of UNCLOS lll.
These are just means of venting anger to try to pull others into "the cause".
Boats ashore include boats under construction, being repaired, being modified, being transported, being broken up, and deserted as wrecks. The two previous similar laws published (now replaced by this tax) excepted these categories specifically, and referred to boats "in use in Greek waters" instead.
There is no reason to believe that boats ashore will be taxed, other than a will to paint a blacker picture. In the same way, there is no reason to believe that patrol boats will flag down passing vessels en route through Greek waters to Turkey in order to break the rules of UNCLOS lll.
These are just means of venting anger to try to pull others into "the cause".
jimbaerselman
New member
Oh. I forgot, but I've just been reminded by Pleias.
A current option is to hand your papers to the port police, declaring the boat as "not in use". Effectively, the boat is in bond. This exempts you from taxes.
A current option is to hand your papers to the port police, declaring the boat as "not in use". Effectively, the boat is in bond. This exempts you from taxes.
chrisgee
Member
grumpygit
Well-known member
This is already the case, the PP should be notified before lift and before launch and this effectively puts the boat into bond. Other years I've alway done this myself but this year the paperwork was done by the yard and I paid them the fee and tax which I think was €9.88.
Peio64
Member
If I agree with point (1) ["there is no reason to beleive that boats ashore will be taxed"], I do not with point (2) because the absence of control by patrol boats would make the escape from the tax very easy for many boats if not the majority.
If I refer for example to my way to cruise Greek (and Turkish) Aegean waters every year (6 months/year), I spend only some nights in Greek harbours controled by port police. This year I can totally skip these visits and, in case of an unlikely control in some desert bay, I can say that I am "en route" to Turkey, thus not liable to pay the tax.
An other crucial area is the Corinth canal which is the most usual way for boats "en route" to Turkey or back to Italy. How to reach it without cruising (and mooring) in Greek waters ? Anyone controled in the Saronique or Patras gulfs can argue that he is "en route" to Turkey or Italy through this canal because his boat can not afford the turn of Peloponnese...
Peio
Dave100456
Well-known member
Peio . . ". . Anyone controled in the Saronique or Patras gulfs can argue that he is "en route" to Turkey or Italy through this canal because his boat can not afford the turn of Peloponnese..."
I am no expert but I think you'll find that your right of innocent passage through a country's territorial waters does not include stopping unless for reasons of safe navigation and also you do not have the right to venture into inland waters which I'd have thought included the Corinth.
You can claim to have engine problems, etc as the reason why you have broken your passage, but the onus would be for you to prove this.
Dave
I am no expert but I think you'll find that your right of innocent passage through a country's territorial waters does not include stopping unless for reasons of safe navigation and also you do not have the right to venture into inland waters which I'd have thought included the Corinth.
You can claim to have engine problems, etc as the reason why you have broken your passage, but the onus would be for you to prove this.
Dave