sailaboutvic
Well-known member
The only reason laws get change is because people speak up , I will follow In People wake and over the next day I too will shot off an email to them .
New tax for foreign yachts based in Greece from 1st January 2014????
- Thread starter Chatelaine60
- Start date
Bertramdriver
Active member
I am sure that they knew that it is unfair for a number of boats and that they will probably leave but, the 8.000 Greek-owned yachts outnumber them and this really is the only way to tax them.
I also think that charter companies like this tax because it makes life harder for some private boats that were illegaly chartered for a few weeks.
If it really is only 8000 Greek owned company registered boats then a team of 15 to 20 reasonably intelligent people should be able to track down the beneficial owners within months. It would certainly be the case with British Registered boats and companies. The mere act of investigation and the inconvenience and cost of creating multiple offshore companies to disguise beneficial ownership would quickly encourage the offenders to own up and pay up. That is assuming that they don't have much more to hide or are sociopathic cheats and liars.
Such a strategy would probably be far more effective than persecuting all and sundry honest owners.
And before the scoffers start quoting how ineffective this strategy is in the UK I would advise you that most settlements with HMRC are never publicised, and for non UK individuals having their dirty dealings brought out into the open encourages a payment rather than having to reconfigure their tax avoidance strategy.
I also think that charter companies like this tax because it makes life harder for some private boats that were illegaly chartered for a few weeks.
If it really is only 8000 Greek owned company registered boats then a team of 15 to 20 reasonably intelligent people should be able to track down the beneficial owners within months. It would certainly be the case with British Registered boats and companies. The mere act of investigation and the inconvenience and cost of creating multiple offshore companies to disguise beneficial ownership would quickly encourage the offenders to own up and pay up. That is assuming that they don't have much more to hide or are sociopathic cheats and liars.
Such a strategy would probably be far more effective than persecuting all and sundry honest owners.
And before the scoffers start quoting how ineffective this strategy is in the UK I would advise you that most settlements with HMRC are never publicised, and for non UK individuals having their dirty dealings brought out into the open encourages a payment rather than having to reconfigure their tax avoidance strategy.
chuckr
New member
Andrew -- the tax is still there and was really put in to try and stop the fleet of fast fishing boats from going from miami over to bahamas and fishing it out -- they can make it over and back in a day and they were and they were bleeding the seas dry - oh and they still are illegally - we saw it first hand - boats going over not checking in or pay and leaving quickly - the Bahamans just don't have enough patrol boats to stop drug running, haitians trying to come in illegally and illegal American fishing boats
However it is only $250USD for 6 months and we did not mind paying that -- we wll not pay 1219euro - that is way out of line
However it is only $250USD for 6 months and we did not mind paying that -- we wll not pay 1219euro - that is way out of line
jimbaerselman
New member
I agree completely. This is exactly the approach being taken by the CA and other sailing organisations. Use this event to negotiate for the possible.
We recognise that this tax is not going to go away. This is the third attempt to introduce it. There has been a large amount of research behind the project. Some of you may have noted numbers of "suits" conducting surveys around the busier ports in Greece, enquiring about ownership, who used the boats and how often, and this during 2012.
The conclusion was simple - a smaller fee from much larger numbers of smaller boats will bring in far more tax. Another conclusion from tourism interests was that Greece should aim to serve "big spenders" better, rather than target the bottom end of the market. They recognise there will be collateral damage - some some of those sailing within tight budgets will leave.
Those who are cynical about the ease with which this tax could be evaded haven't understood the following part of the law:
That's pretty watertight. Occupiers and users . . .
It's quite natural that people suddenly seeing an un-expected bill for several hundreds of euros feel angry. You have the option to move elsewhere. We'll fight the injustice of charging people post-event. We'll also argue the case that more will stay on if some things are improved. The harbour authorities will be pleased to see the water gypsies who block many small harbours move on - since that creates much needed space for tourists in charter boats. Who spend.
Now I've got to go out with chain-saw to release my car from the clutches of a fallen tree . . . only a couple of dents, luckily. But lots of props to be installed to take the load while hacking it away.
And a happy Christmas to all of you!
Grehan
Well-known member
Aye, Seasons Greetings to you too, Jim
jordanbasset
Well-known member
A possible partial solution would be for the port police to actually collect port dues, with those who have proof that they have paid this new tax would be exempted, my experience is that port dues were seldom collected, infact in my two years there we probably paid half a dozen times.
This would mean boats just travelling through would only pay for the time they were tied upto a quay. For those based in Greece it would make financial sense for most to pay the tax rather than the port fees. Those who wanted to leave Greece could do with minimal charges
This would mean boats just travelling through would only pay for the time they were tied upto a quay. For those based in Greece it would make financial sense for most to pay the tax rather than the port fees. Those who wanted to leave Greece could do with minimal charges
AndrewB
Well-known member
I shan't hold my breath. Doubtless there are examples where the laws of one country have been modified as the result of grassroots petitioning by the nationals of another, but off-hand I can't think of any.
chuckr
New member
we have cast our vote -- we just made a reservation for next winter -- we will come back to Port Yasmine in Tunisia -- we just don't trust the Greeks and really do not want to take a chance of going to or through Greek waters and get hammered by their tax -- we will wait a year and see what transpires
Carmel2
New member
Let me get this straight, you don't trust a entire country becase they have introduced a tax??? If so, I strongly suggest you get rid of your mooring lines! Because you are never going to use them ever again.
Appleyard
Well-known member
God love them..they are 'muricans. Think about it.
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Tony Cross
Well-known member
Well the Trojans warned us not to trust Greeks bearing gifts. Perhaps if Agamemnon had left a tax bill outside Troy instead of that wooden horse he might feel better about the Greeks?
charles_reed
Active member
Well the Trojans warned us not to trust Greeks bearing gifts. Perhaps if Agamemnon had left a tax bill outside Troy instead of that wooden horse he might feel better about the Greeks?
Actually the Romans;- Virgil attributed the saying to Laocoon (he of the snakes) in his Aeniad, written some time after the Mycenians had had their day.
charles_reed
Active member
Mind you there are lots of Greeks in America - so Chuck might be speaking with some inside information.
1bobt
N/A
A Trojan priest who, after warning against the acceptance of the wooden horse left at Troy by the Greeks, was killed along with his sons by two serpents.
Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Copyright 2005, 1997, 1991 by Random House, Inc. All rights reserved.
akyaka
New member
But a lot earlier Sophocles (496 - 406 BC),
Nought from the Greeks towards me hath sped well.
So now I find that ancient proverb true,
Foes' gifts are no gifts: profit bring they none.
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
He did not write that he doesn't trust Greece (the country). He wrote that he didn't trust the Greeks (people) who are responsible for introducing such a law. This is a thread about the basic poor wording, logic and unfairness of a catch-all law. The least you should do is to choose your words carefully and not play to an audience. Jamesmar in support of you, lumped all Americans (North and South) as citizens of USA. Same error.
Carmel2
New member
The people are the country, distrusting the land, sea and air would be a tad absurd.
akyaka
New member
More likely a poor translation(s). When has any tax anywhere been logical or fair to those caught by it.All that can be done as on this thread is voice concerns/lobby which will hopefully be listened to .The difficulty is it could be seen as a moan by the foreigners . Is anyone aware if there is any groundswell of objection by Greek boat owners.
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Bertramdriver
Active member
Among my contacts there is nought but despair, depression and acquiescence. Sad really that a whole society has been beaten into submission by the Troika eurocrats.
1bobt
N/A
I have e-mailed the whole thread to the Greek Embassy.