New tax for foreign yachts based in Greece from 1st January 2014????

[Bertramdriver]

I've just sent the following email to the embassy. I'm hoping that all of you will follow

Dear Sirs
I am a British citizen, living in England and owning a British registered boat which I have kept in Greece for the last ten years. During that time I have contributed approximately 20% of my income to the Greek economy. I have done this willingly as my family love and respect the Greek people we have met and I now call friends.
However the introduction of this new tax on a non Greek citizen is both unreasonable and unaffordable for us as pensioners.
Consequently I among many will depart from Greek waters this coming spring unless the terms of this tax are reconsidered.

 

[Chris_Robb]

I've just sent the following email to the embassy. I'm hoping that all of you will follow

Dear Sirs
I am a British citizen, living in England and owning a British registered boat which I have kept in Greece for the last ten years. During that time I have contributed approximately 20% of my income to the Greek economy. I have done this willingly as my family love and respect the Greek people we have met and I now call friends.
However the introduction of this new tax on a non Greek citizen is both unreasonable and unaffordable for us as pensioners.
Consequently I among many will depart from Greek waters this coming spring unless the terms of this tax are reconsidered.

And more please everyone - don't copy word for word - a bit of originality in each one please!!!

 

[Appleyard]

I've just sent the following email to the embassy. I'm hoping that all of you will follow

Dear Sirs
I am a British citizen, living in England and owning a British registered boat which I have kept in Greece for the last ten years. During that time I have contributed approximately 20% of my income to the Greek economy. I have done this willingly as my family love and respect the Greek people we have met and I now call friends.
However the introduction of this new tax on a non Greek citizen is both unreasonable and unaffordable for us as pensioners.
Consequently I among many will depart from Greek waters this coming spring unless the terms of this tax are reconsidered.

Excellent... gets to the point and covers all the concerns. Will do likewise over the next few days.

 

[vyv_cox]

Have sent mine.

 

[1bobt]

Any objections if I do send this thread to Greek embassy????????

 

[Bertramdriver]

Bob, do it.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Any objections if I do send this thread to Greek embassy????????

Better that everyone individually emails as well though.

 

[jimbaerselman]

http://www.cruising.org.uk/news/greektax has been updated.

The Greek ministry of Marine and Aegean, who are responsible for implementing this tax, have received emails from The Cruising Association and other national sailing organisations. The email sent is attached to the web page above.

It will considerably help negotiations (which have already started) if individuals make their opinions or intentions known to their marinas, yards and their Greek embassies. If parts of the email sent by the CA apply to your own circumstances, please use them. If you think our letter has some glaring omissions, please use the contact email address on the page to let us know.

 

[grumpygit]

Yes, well done Chris for starting the ball rolling. May I also suggest that if any others on this forum knows of anyone else through their travels and have their contact details to please make contact to urge them to respond also.
Every little helps

Here's my two pen'nth for what it's worth . . .

Dear Sir/Madam

As a British national and EU citizen, I must ask you to please take and pass on my complaint to your government against the very unfair tax and of which is greatly biased according to boat sizes to a point where it makes no sense at all.
We spend our time between England and Greece and I own a British registered sailing yacht which I sail in Greek waters for the summer and put into a boat yard in Greece for the winter, this we have done for 5 years. Over this time I have put in excess of £150,000.00 (€180,000.00) into the Greek economy PLUS whatever family and friends have spent on their visits.
For us (my wife and I) this new boat tax is wholly unfair, not affordable and untenable.
We will be leaving Greek waters as soon as it is possible for the boat to be relaunched and will not return to Greek waters unless this tax is drastically amended or abolished.
Speaking and communicating amongst other boat owners I can only say there will be a mass exodus following us from Greece and her waters and never to return.

Yours faithfully

 

[grumpygit]

Yes, well done Chris for starting the ball rolling. May I also suggest that if any others on this forum knows of anyone else through their travels and have their contact details to please make contact to urge them to respond also.
Every little helps

Sorry Jimb, I wish to thank you and the CA also for all you are doing on our behalf. Very remiss of me not to mention this earlier.

 

[Appleyard]

Quite frankly I can't see anyone at the Greek embassy having the time and patience to wade through the entire thread .
As has been said,surely much better to send individual e mails.

 

[Chris_Robb]

http://www.cruising.org.uk/news/greektax has been updated.

The Greek ministry of Marine and Aegean, who are responsible for implementing this tax, have received emails from The Cruising Association and other national sailing organisations. The email sent is attached to the web page above.

It will considerably help negotiations (which have already started) if individuals make their opinions or intentions known to their marinas, yards and their Greek embassies. If parts of the email sent by the CA apply to your own circumstances, please use them. If you think our letter has some glaring omissions, please use the contact email address on the page to let us know.

Jim, things to add to the letter.

From the email I had back, their assertion that they are only introducing taxes to match Italy, Croatia and Spain which is erroneous and needs to be pointed out to them - I already have in my reply.

From my own point of view, I am in the water for the winter and therefore I would like to be free of the likelihood of a fine when I get there in May - ie the same treatment as boats on the hard - ie not in use.

The first year they need to introduce an allowance to give us the 30% discount even in May or when ever we come out to sail. It is akin to legalised robbery otherwise.

You need also to point out some of the anomalies which will effect the islands tourist trade hard - Charter boats from Turkey etc. and the effect of that on Tavernas and marinas. - although you have pointed out that boats will leave for the winter elsewhere - and not out of pure economics - but out of anger at the legalised robbery.

Overall, I thought the letter did not have much punch behind it. I would have preferred a much harder hitting format - more aggressive and angry - but perhaps thats just me

 

[Peio64]

http://www.cruising.org.uk/news/greektax has been updated.

The Greek ministry of Marine and Aegean, who are responsible for implementing this tax, have received emails from The Cruising Association and other national sailing organisations. The email sent is attached to the web page above.

It will considerably help negotiations (which have already started) if individuals make their opinions or intentions known to their marinas, yards and their Greek embassies. If parts of the email sent by the CA apply to your own circumstances, please use them. If you think our letter has some glaring omissions, please use the contact email address on the page to let us know.

Many thanks to those who fight against this law. First of all, JimB and the CA-UK.
I am a French sailor who cruises Mediterranean and Aegean since decades (Greece/Turkey). I am now retired and I use to sail there 6 months every year between May and October. My 14m old ketch is now out of the water in Chios island (formerly in Leros Marina for 4 years).

I can not afford to pay 1400€ next April when I plan to come back to Greece for sailing and therefore 2400€ if a fine would apply to boats presently landed or moored unattended for winter in a marina.

Thus I hope that this law will be cancelled or at least drastically modified or alternatively postponed till 2015.
I do agree with Chris Robb (message 672) that this letter woul have been "more aggressive and angry" than it is since, as such, it ressembles very much to an acceptance of the law with a polite demand of some light modifications.
For example nothing is said about the EU rules which drove to the cancellation of a very similar Greek tax for foreign yachts voted in 1999 and condamned, first by a decision of the EU Commission in 2001, followed by a judgment of The EU Court in 2002. I am not jurist, but the fact to ask foreign yachts (in particular UE flagged yachts) to pay a tax only for cruising and mooring in Greek waters looks contradictory to the Schengen treaty defining "free circulation for goods and persons" within the countries who signed it (Greece being included). At least, it should be proposed that this tax could be limited to foreign flagged yachts whose owners are Greek citizens or Greek residents (as it is in France now).
Visiting yachts should be completely excluded, even if they would have to pay a further "residence tax" when they moor in a Greek harbor or marina. This seems to me more logical inasmuch as services of concerned municipalities would be offered in exchange of this "residence tax" (garbage and other facilities).

I wrote yesterday to the French Ambassy of Greece for asking an official translation of this law and for saying my worries about it. I will report here their answer as soon as I get it.

I have also a question for Jim Baerselman : you say periodically that you are working with foreign (i.e. not British) associations. Amongst these associations, is there a French one ? If so, could you tell me which one (or oneS, if I dream) ? Did this French association co-sign your letter ?

Have a good day and merry X-mas.

Pierre

 

[1bobt]

Quite frankly I can't see anyone at the Greek embassy having the time and patience to wade through the entire thread .
As has been said,surely much better to send individual e mails.

And why not? I would think they would have a duty to read all mail they received. (No matter how boring)

 

[Bertramdriver]

Just a thought.
90% of our grievances would be met with three simple amendments to the application of the law
Recognise the rights of innocent passage with a 30 day free of charge limit for boats passing through. With a dated passage carnet issued by the first port entry.
A 50% discount for any foreign boat that can prove ownership by a non Greek citizen with non Greek tax status but "based in Greece" These proofs to be produced once per year when the boat leaves it's registered home port or marina.
The option for all boat owners to pay on a monthly basis as recorded on the DEKPA (it would finally have a use!)
It would be more constructive to offer alternatives rather than just bleat on about how unfair the tax is.

 

[Glyka]

Just a thought.
90% of our grievances would be met with three simple amendments to the application of the law
Recognise the rights of innocent passage with a 30 day free of charge limit for boats passing through. With a dated passage carnet issued by the first port entry.
A 50% discount for any foreign boat that can prove ownership by a non Greek citizen with non Greek tax status but "based in Greece" These proofs to be produced once per year when the boat leaves it's registered home port or marina.
The option for all boat owners to pay on a monthly basis as recorded on the DEKPA (it would finally have a use!)
It would be more constructive to offer alternatives rather than just bleat on about how unfair the tax is.

I am afraid that there is no hope.
All these amendments will be used by the Greek big fish. They already have. All big boats (and some smaller) are owned by british companies. The last time a tax was applied on a per-usage basis, a large number of yachts declared non-usage at the port police by depositing their papers and only took them back a month in the summer thus paying only for a month.

I am sure that they knew that it is unfair for a number of boats and that they will probably leave but, the 8.000 Greek-owned yachts outnumber them and this really is the only way to tax them.
I also think that charter companies like this tax because it makes life harder for some private boats that were illegaly chartered for a few weeks.

Innocent passage is the only thing that have to be dealt with but you have to think of a procedure that a) cannot be used by Greek boats and b) can be easily policed.

P.S. 30 days is hardly innocent passage!

 

[chuckr]

this is an email we sent to the greek visit greece tourism office -- doubtful it will get beyond them and probably just deleted but who knows


Dear sir - we are an American couple who sailed our 40' - 12.19m - sailboat across the Atlantic last May and are currently over wintering in Tunisia. We had planned to visit your embassy in Tunis to ascertain if we could get a long term visa to over winter in Greece next year.

Nowever, we have leaned that the Greek government has just put on a new cruising tax for all boats in Greek water and for us it would cost us 1219 euros to enter Greek waters. We are not rich and this is simply beyond our means. We left the USA over 6 years ago and while we have paid some fees to enter other countries, nothing comes close to these charges.

We have had other cruisers talk to us about the new tax and we all agree we unfortunately be skipping Greece. At this time with the Greek waters essentially closed to us we plan to cruise the Italian coast and down to Albania before returning to Tunisia or to Israel or Lebanon.

God promises a safe anchorage, not necessarily a smooth passage; so rig heavy, reef early, and pray often
chuck patty and svsoulmates
In Port Yasmine Hammamet Tunisia

 

[AndrewB]

When a petition was put by American yachting interests to the Bahamas Government about 15 years ago when they introduced a similar charge, the response of the Bahamian minister responsible was reported to be: "We don't want skinflint foreign yachtsmen here anyway. We only want people coming who are prepared to spend money". I can imagine a similar result from the Greeks. By-and-by, the Bahamian tax is still there.

 

[BrianH]

I am sure there will be no impression whatsoever, but one cannot just stand by as our cruising areas get more expensive and restricted. I have chipped in my two cents worth ...
_________________________________________________

Subject: Article 13 of law 4211/2013 concerning boat taxation
To : contact@yna.gov.gr
cc : commercial@greekembassy.org.uk

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am an expatriate British subject, who keeps a small (9.4m) sailing yacht in Italy, with which I sometimes sail to the Ionian. My point of reference is the recent tax on leisure boats in general and a publicised error of inference shown by the Economic & Commercial Section of the Greek Embassy in London (presumably transmitted there by your department) in particular.

I therefore take issue with the following:
"According to the Greek Minister for Marine and the Aegean, the aims of the new tax on pleasure boats are to strengthen public revenue and to correspond to similar charges in force in neighbouring countries (Spain, Italy), but not to act as a disincentive to tourists.“

As a permanent berth holder in Italy I can assure you that there is no “similar charges” or tax on my yacht there. The newly-introduced berthing tax is for Italian residents, or companies there registered, only and, for them, only for vessels over 14m.

As someone who cruises to the Ionian for a matter of weeks only I have no intention of invoking a full year's fees for my yacht. Consequently, in clear contravention to the stated aim “ not to act as a disincentive to tourists” I shall not plan on any further cruises to Greece while such a draconian tax for short-term “innocent passage” visit is in effect. Instead I shall aim for Croatia, which has suspended its annual vignette fees for EU-registered boats in recognition of its newly-attained accession.

Yours sincerely,

Edit:
Glyka's point about "innocent passage" is correct, that was an unfortunate inclusion.

 

[rivonia]

this is an email we sent to the greek visit greece tourism office -- doubtful it will get beyond them and probably just deleted but who knows


Dear sir - we are an American couple who sailed our 40' - 12.19m - sailboat across the Atlantic last May and are currently over wintering in Tunisia. We had planned to visit your embassy in Tunis to ascertain if we could get a long term visa to over winter in Greece next year.

Nowever, we have leaned that the Greek government has just put on a new cruising tax for all boats in Greek water and for us it would cost us 1219 euros to enter Greek waters. We are not rich and this is simply beyond our means. We left the USA over 6 years ago and while we have paid some fees to enter other countries, nothing comes close to these charges.

We have had other cruisers talk to us about the new tax and we all agree we unfortunately be skipping Greece. At this time with the Greek waters essentially closed to us we plan to cruise the Italian coast and down to Albania before returning to Tunisia or to Israel or Lebanon.

God promises a safe anchorage, not necessarily a smooth passage; so rig heavy, reef early, and pray often
chuck patty and svsoulmates
In Port Yasmine Hammamet Tunisia

Excellent wording and so very true of many many yachts on the seas. We are no longer live aboards but were in the same position as yourselfs. That is NOT WEALTHY.

We wish you well.

Peter