New tax for foreign yachts based in Greece from 1st January 2014????

[Tony Cross]

Unfortunately, it's clear that it won't. It will only apply to boats of paragraph 2, case delta (over 12 m).

P.S.

As to the monthly payments, the law is contradictive (hence the confusion). In the begining of par. 2 it says clearly that it is an annual tax, whereas at case delta of the same paragraph (how to compute the fee for boats over 12m) it says about yearly and monthly fee. No mention of instalments or payment options.

The law is obviously a (silly) draft but, as it was in the same law with something very urgent, it had to be gazetted. I hope that they will process it and reapply for vote. All we need is an MP to bring the issue to the house. Do you know anyone?

I think this is the most sensible comment on this proposal for some time. I said at the start that we should wait and see what actually happens with this law before we all chuck our toys out of the pram. Personally I'm encouraged that the CA, in cooperation with other European sailing associations, is making a case for the Greek government to look again at some aspects of this law. In the big scheme of things though this particular law probably has a fairly low priority for the Greek government and in any case is, I suspect, aimed more at the Greek yacht owners who have managed to avoid the luxury boat tax so far and we foreign visitors are being caught in the net. It's not over until the fat lady sings and she's still in her dressing room at the moment.

 

[pelissima]

I don't want to think how this law would look like if the minister did not have a yacht himself. But it's probably below threshold

 

[jimbaerselman]

In the law, the Minister for marine and Aegean has been delegated a high degree of authority to determine how the law will be implemented. The Cruising Association and other European organisations have presented their cases, and described our uncertainties about how the law will be applied. Our German friends have a man in Athens representing us. He has already had preliminary discussions with ministry staff, who already recognise the need for clarification, and some changes, especially for boats already in Greece caught by retrospective legislation. CA will publish its wish list to all of you as soon as the Ministry confirms they have received it. The CA news link will be updated as soon as firm information is received.

JimB, for the CA

 

[BurnitBlue]

In the law, the Minister for marine and Aegean has been delegated a high degree of authority to determine how the law will be implemented. The Cruising Association and other European organisations have presented their cases, and described our uncertainties about how the law will be applied. Our German friends have a man in Athens representing us. He has already had preliminary discussions with ministry staff, who already recognise the need for clarification, and some changes, especially for boats already in Greece caught by retrospective legislation. CA will publish its wish list to all of you as soon as the Ministry confirms they have received it. The CA news link will be updated as soon as firm information is received.

JimB, for the CA

Good news at last, especially as the cruising organisations have made contact with the Minister concerned. Good luck.

 

[Cheery]

Having read this thread from the start and being as confused as most would it not have made sense to just have a per metre per month figure? This way if you are spending a few weeks moving from island to island on your way to, say Turkey, it wouldn't cost a fortune. Then at the end of the season if you were making your way back to, say Croatia you again only pay the same formula. It does look like the only thing (apart from confusion) they have achieved is a mass exodus of small boaters who would buy food, beer, wine etc from local businesses. As posted earlier, large yachts who can afford these fees, would have everything they need so the locals wouldn't benefit financially.

Just a simpleton's viewpoint you understand.

 

[vyv_cox]

Having read this thread from the start and being as confused as most would it not have made sense to just have a per metre per month figure? This way if you are spending a few weeks moving from island to island on your way to, say Turkey, it wouldn't cost a fortune. Then at the end of the season if you were making your way back to, say Croatia you again only pay the same formula. It does look like the only thing (apart from confusion) they have achieved is a mass exodus of small boaters who would buy food, beer, wine etc from local businesses. As posted earlier, large yachts who can afford these fees, would have everything they need so the locals wouldn't benefit financially.

Just a simpleton's viewpoint you understand.

Made sense? Politicians?

 

[Bertramdriver]

Having read this thread from the start and being as confused as most would it not have made sense to just have a per metre per month figure? This way if you are spending a few weeks moving from island to island on your way to, say Turkey, it wouldn't cost a fortune. Then at the end of the season if you were making your way back to, say Croatia you again only pay the same formula. It does look like the only thing (apart from confusion) they have achieved is a mass exodus of small boaters who would buy food, beer, wine etc from local businesses. As posted earlier, large yachts who can afford these fees, would have everything they need so the locals wouldn't benefit financially.

Just a simpleton's viewpoint you understand.

A bit too simple I'm afraid.

 

[Tranona]

Having read this thread from the start and being as confused as most would it not have made sense to just have a per metre per month figure? This way if you are spending a few weeks moving from island to island on your way to, say Turkey, it wouldn't cost a fortune. Then at the end of the season if you were making your way back to, say Croatia you again only pay the same formula. It does look like the only thing (apart from confusion) they have achieved is a mass exodus of small boaters who would buy food, beer, wine etc from local businesses. As posted earlier, large yachts who can afford these fees, would have everything they need so the locals wouldn't benefit financially.

Just a simpleton's viewpoint you understand.

You misunderstand the purpose of the tax. It is aimed at taxing Greek owners of large boats, particularly those who register their boat outside Greece but keep it there. The impact on others is collateral, and to be honest for owners of boats less than 12m the impact is not too dramatic. It does however penalized short term visitors and liveaboard with larger boats. Maybe lobbying will lead to some modification to make it more fair, but experience suggests that whatever the official rules are implementation will be inconsistent. Arguably the more flexibility to respond to varying needs the greater the inconsistency.

 

[grumpygit]

Having read this thread from the start and being as confused as most would it not have made sense to just have a per metre per month figure? This way if you are spending a few weeks moving from island to island on your way to, say Turkey, it wouldn't cost a fortune. Then at the end of the season if you were making your way back to, say Croatia you again only pay the same formula. It does look like the only thing (apart from confusion) they have achieved is a mass exodus of small boaters who would buy food, beer, wine etc from local businesses. As posted earlier, large yachts who can afford these fees, would have everything they need so the locals wouldn't benefit financially.

Just a simpleton's viewpoint you understand.

Come on folks, as much as it hurts me more than most on this site (15 metres), we all know what the taxes will do to us and others, Greeks and cruisers alike. If it's a legal tax (EU or otherwise), so be it and what difference is all the moaning going to do about it. I think cruising in Greece is fantastic and I'm quite prepared to contribute for the great pleasure of cruising in their waters. I know a lot of people are here in Greece because of the all round cheapness of the cost of living as we knew it.. No one enjoys taxes, that's why some/most of us are out here and I for one will stay as long as the region of the new tax stays within it's present boundaries. I'm very sorry for those that can't or won't afford the tax but life and taxes move on. I'm not being condescending to my fellows and peers, but we must learn to adjust to modern times, whether it suits us or not. Please let the associations from all the nationalities do their best for us and after that we'll have to embrace what ever is thrown at us. If nothing suits for anybody at the end of the day you'll just have to move on or pay the price. All I can say is that if we have to pay the tax as presented so be it, if we don't have to pay it, fantastic. But in saying all this I can only hold these tax decisions at the foot of the EU and Greek political gnomes that try to rule our lives and do you really think that most Greeks give a damn about this tax with what they have to deal with to survive. No !

 

[Mad Pad]

Grumpy Git,I'm with you on this one.Can't see what all the fuss is about this circulation tax.
Seems good value to me to cruise Greece where one is seldom charged for mooring or anchoring.
I did have a problem a few years ago when they proposed to introduce a one off tax of yachts..think it would have cost us about 9,000 euros for a 17.5m boat(Jim correct me if I am wrong).The port police marked my depka in red saying I had to pay but didn't push it.
Apparantly some people had paid.
Anyway "MOVE ON" to where???

 

[Tony Cross]

The marina at Agios Nikolaos on Crete has already made a very positive response to the challenge this new boat tax will be for their business. In the new 2014 price list not only have they held prices at 2013 levels but they will offer an additional 7% discount to any yacht 12m or over LOA booking a years berth. This is in addition to any other discounts you may be entitled to. If you pay in advance for a years berth here you already get an 8% discount, so an over 12m yacht booking a years berth here and paying in advance will get a 15% discount.

 

[1bobt]

The marina at Agios Nikolaos on Crete has already made a very positive response to the challenge this new boat tax will be for their business. In the new 2014 price list not only have they held prices at 2013 levels but they will offer an additional 7% discount to any yacht 12m or over LOA booking a years berth. This is in addition to any other discounts you may be entitled to. If you pay in advance for a years berth here you already get an 8% discount, so an over 12m yacht booking a years berth here and paying in advance will get a 15% discount.

Question is how much would you pay after the discount for a 12 m?

 

[Tony Cross]

Question is how much would you pay after the discount for a 12 m?

The 2013 price list (2014 prices are the same) is at http://www.marinaofaghiosnikolaos.gr/index.php/price-list. If your boat is 12m or longer you will get a 7% discount off the yearly price and another 8% if you pay in advance.

 

[Tony Cross]

Does the left hand know what the right is doing?

I've just come across the following item in today's Kathimerini newspaper:

Greece’s new Zoning Plan for Tourism provides for an increase in the network of marinas, small ports and harbors in the Ionian Sea, the eastern and southeastern Aegean, and the Saronic, Argolikos and Pagasitikos gulfs, among others.

It adds that Greece should ensure the supply of sufficient services, including refueling, for recreational boats through the rational dispersing of tourism port infrastructure, with the aim of creating a network that will have a suggested distance of 30 nautical miles between marinas and 15 nautical miles between marinas and small ports or harbors.

Meanwhile a survey that consulting firm McKinsey delivered to the Association of Hellenic Tourism Enterprises (SETE) concerning the development of Greek tourism includes yacht tourism among its priorities. It argues that locations for the creation of another 15 to 20 marinas have to be found around the country, in addition to the marinas planned by state privatization fund TAIPED.

McKinsey adds that marinas must be upgraded to offer a minimum standard of services on a permanent basis. The survey found that just 12 marinas around Greece, including six in Attica, offer high-level services.

It does make you wonder whether the left hand knows what the right hand is doing?

Source: http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite2_1_18/12/2013_532937

 

[1bobt]

Another 15 to 20 white elephants

 

[paulingreece]

Water and electricity being installed on the quay at Kilada, other harbours to follow.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Water and electricity being installed on the quay at Kilada, other harbours to follow.

Yea but will any power or water come out of them , that's the big question

 

[sailaboutvic]

Why is it that some people usually then once with more money then they know what to do with and throw it around like there no to morrow , seen to think this tax is ok .
If the Greeks government want to tax people for mooring in harbour or add a tax on marina fees that's fine , at less people have the choose to stay in Greece or not , but why should people who are just sailing though have to pay or people who are caught up in this because their happened to wintered out there this year .
and I can't believe some people who been writing on here ( what all the fuss about the tax ) , hey guys if you have so much money that your not bothered about paying this tax I sure there a lot of us who be quite happy for you to pay our tax too .
There are plenty of cruises out there who are on a budgets and an extra 400 is going to make a big different to them .
As for us we , we left Greece last year and although we had plans to return this year , we now won't and stay away until Greece sort it self out .
Some one wrote " go where " there plenty of places to go , well for now because if this tax comes in it may be a different story in a year or two time .

 

[Squeaky]

Why is it that some people usually then once with more money then they know what to do with and throw it around like there no to morrow , seen to think this tax is ok .
If the Greeks government want to tax people for mooring in harbour or add a tax on marina fees that's fine , at less people have the choose to stay in Greece or not , but why should people who are just sailing though have to pay or people who are caught up in this because their happened to wintered out there this year .
and I can't believe some people who been writing on here ( what all the fuss about the tax ) , hey guys if you have so much money that your not bothered about paying this tax I sure there a lot of us who be quite happy for you to pay our tax too .
There are plenty of cruises out there who are on a budgets and an extra 400 is going to make a big different to them .
As for us we , we left Greece last year and although we had plans to return this year , we now won't and stay away until Greece sort it self out .
Some one wrote " go where " there plenty of places to go , well for now because if this tax comes in it may be a different story in a year or two time .

Good morning:

I don't think anyone will be happy if this tax is eventually imposed however as the old saying goes "the only two things that can't be avoided are death and taxes". I don't see any point in getting angry and posting a lot of negative remarks on this forum as that is almost the same as talking to oneself - no one on this forum is in a position to change or effect the tax. I don't welcome this tax any more than anyone even though my cost will be on the lower scale. A small benefit of living on board a small yacht - what the heck there has to be some benefit, I guess.

As I think it has been said many times, this tax seems to have originated with the "Troika" and is designed to catch the Greek owners of large yachts who have managed to keep them at the bottom of the garden by registering them under foreign flags thereby avoiding previous taxes which exempted foreign flagged yachts.

I personally can't think of any way to frame a law to catch them while excluding the rest of us who want to sail in Greek waters.

Suggests would be welcome although I don't think any of our suggestions will have the slightest effect on anything.

Cheers

Squeaky

 

[1bobt]

Good morning:

I don't think anyone will be happy if this tax is eventually imposed however as the old saying goes "the only two things that can't be avoided are death and taxes". I don't see any point in getting angry and posting a lot of negative remarks on this forum as that is almost the same as talking to oneself - no one on this forum is in a position to change or effect the tax. I don't welcome this tax any more than anyone even though my cost will be on the lower scale. A small benefit of living on board a small yacht - what the heck there has to be some benefit, I guess.

As I think it has been said many times, this tax seems to have originated with the "Troika" and is designed to catch the Greek owners of large yachts who have managed to keep them at the bottom of the garden by registering them under foreign flags thereby avoiding previous taxes which exempted foreign flagged yachts.

I personally can't think of any way to frame a law to catch them while excluding the rest of us who want to sail in Greek waters.

Suggests would be welcome although I don't think any of our suggestions will have the slightest effect on anything.

Cheers

Squeaky

The problem as I see it living mostly in Poros and Aegina area ,with these Large Greek owned gin palaces ,is the Port Authority never asks for their " PAPERS NOW" ,there is usually a hand shake on the quay and thats it .
It will be us paying the tax not them