rotrax
Well-known member
Surely as citizens of the EU we must be treated the same as Greek citizens in many areas? Perhaps someone with more knowledge can comment.
New tax for foreign yachts based in Greece from 1st January 2014????
- Thread starter Chatelaine60
- Start date
Surely as citizens of the EU we must be treated the same as Greek citizens in many areas? Perhaps someone with more knowledge can comment.
Bertramdriver
Active member
I think we have to face up to the fact that the Troika believe that anyone owning/ living on a 12m+ boat has to be wealthy. Most of their holiday experience of Mediterranean Marinas and private yachts must confirm this prejudice. The fact that most of us are not wealthy and choose livaboard as a lifestyle choice or make painful sacrifices to keep our boats is irrelevant. We are sitting ducks and I have no doubts that the Greek colleagues of the Troika are happy to deflect their ire from Greek boat owners on to us. After all we have no representation that can carry clout in Athens or Brussels. I just wish that the CA or other North Eurpean associations had the wit to form aggressive lobby group. The RYA have been quite effective in domestic issues, now it's time for the CA to man up and fight.
Tranona
Well-known member
Just because they are Greek?, or because one has a smaller boat ? Have you included all those Greeks who do not own a boat in calculating your average? If so then individual Greek boat owner is paying a huge amount if the average for all Greeks is 350 euros.
rivonia
Active member
Of course that is YOUR oppinion. However it is NOT as you stated a FACT.
Squeaky
New member
Good afternoon:
Please explain what is the difference between you and the Greek owners of yachts more than 12 m? It seems to me that the drafter of this law wanted to take it a bit easier on owners of small yachts while imposing a larger tax on the owners (Greek and foreign) of the large yachts which most of the Greek owners have registered elsewhere to avoid taxes in the past. By making the law applicable to ALL yachts they will have a tax that catches everyone including those who have managed to avoid taxes in the past.
In passing please note that I consider anyone who can afford a 12 m yacht and related expenses as wealthy although they might not consider themselves to be.
Cheers
Squeaky
grafozz
Member
Theres more ,
as of Jan 1st here , ALL persons living in Greece over 183 days p.a will be liable for income tax .
The big catch is the tax threshold has been dropped from 10k to 5 k in the last 2 years and will now be dropped to ....
0 - 25k .
the rate will be 22%
this means every Tom Dick and Spiros will be sent a tax demand .
the law was passed through Parliament on Sept 15 th 2012 and is , apparently , in place .
Greece has a declining population , 5.5 % last year and this will probably encourage an even bigger exodus ,
making the remainder liable for the ever increasing debt
What a mad situation .
revolution anyone ?
as of Jan 1st here , ALL persons living in Greece over 183 days p.a will be liable for income tax .
The big catch is the tax threshold has been dropped from 10k to 5 k in the last 2 years and will now be dropped to ....
0 - 25k .
the rate will be 22%
this means every Tom Dick and Spiros will be sent a tax demand .
the law was passed through Parliament on Sept 15 th 2012 and is , apparently , in place .
Greece has a declining population , 5.5 % last year and this will probably encourage an even bigger exodus ,
making the remainder liable for the ever increasing debt
What a mad situation .
revolution anyone ?
Bertramdriver
Active member
Well Sqeaky
How wealthy am I? You seem to believe that after working for 47 years, paying taxes, and saving for a (minute) pension I don't have the right to spend my savings during my (at best) last 5 years. I have a 12.95m not because I'm wealthy but because I can't physically move around a smaller one and I need space. You must have a stunted view of the kind of people affected by this tax. Yes the richer Greeks but also the struggling retired and live aboards
Squeaky
New member
Good afternoon:
Nothing personal and I have no idea if you are wealthy or not however I was trying to point out that many others would consider you to be wealthy regardless as to where and how you acquired your assets.
I am sure that many of the Greek owners who will now have to pay taxes on their yachts will feel the same as you do - that they are entitled to their yachts and riches without the state taking anything from them. If the stories are correct they will have avoided any tax on their yachts for many years and I don't see them suddenly accepting that they should pay this tax.
I also suspect that they will simply keep their yachts away from Greek waters thereby avoiding the new tax.
Cheers
Squeaky
maby
Well-known member
I'm guessing that a lot of people will do the same - taxing a moveable asset is rarely productive.
Bertramdriver
Active member
At least the exercise will keep them fit
Steve C Cronin
N/A
Quite simply, most "locals" will own a boat around 8 or 9 metres as they use them for local pottering so get charged €300 - €400 yet people like me who live on their boats for half of the year tend to have a boat of 40-45ft (12-14 metres) because that is about the minimum to live on comfortably. OK?
The locals spend what they spend in nearby businesses regardless of what they do with their boats but WE bring cash into those communities which otherwise they would not get - and now probably won't get so much of in future. Get it now?
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Steve C Cronin
N/A
My view, exactly. Well put but the CA's approach reminds me of the description once made of a certain Chancellor under Margaret Thatcher, remember "Being savaged by a dead sheep"? Added to that, the local bloke on the ground takes the view "My beloved Greece, right or wrong" so we're stuffed depending upon HIM* to "Fight" our cause.
*Could have hit the wrong key for one letter in that word but I'm not altering it.
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Steve C Cronin
N/A
Well, if they want to catch their own tax dodgers, why not just impose the tax on their own nationals then? What they are doing is just demanding, at gunpoint (& that may end up being most accurate in some cases - the PP carry guns or can call on their colleagues the Hellenic Coastguard as and when) money from visitors.
BTW, is "Wealthy" some sort of social crime in your philosophy?
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Ravi
Active member
Can anyone tell me how I can unsubscribe to this thread?
I am sick and depressed of hearing about how some English people who live in Greece despise the country and all who live in it.
How do I stop getting thread updates from this thread, PLEASE!
I am sick and depressed of hearing about how some English people who live in Greece despise the country and all who live in it.
How do I stop getting thread updates from this thread, PLEASE!
jordanbasset
Well-known member
From reading this thread I assume those that are complaining who keep their boat in Greece but do not live there will move next year, if they do respect to them . If they do not move and decide to stay I do hope they stop complaining and just enjoy the wonderful sailing areas Greece provides.
pelissima
Member
The tax law re Greek boat owners, made and possibly still does a clear distinction between motor boats and sail boats at least if I remember well up to 15m, offering a 50% discount to sail boats. This simply means that authorities at one instance understood and acted on the difference between the two vessels. Perhaps this is where we should all concentrate our efforts?
Squeaky
New member
Good morning:
It seems that you would be happy to see the wealthy Greeks taxed however, while enjoying all the advantages of living in Greece, don't want the tax to apply to yourself. I believe that efforts have been made in the past to tax Greek yacht owners which failed because they registered their yachts aboard with "shell companies" or other tax avoidance means. This new tax will catch them IF they have their yachts in Greece however it will also catch foreign yacht owners at the same time. I think in some situations this is referred to as "collacteral damage".
Your comment about a boat of 40-45 ft (12-14 metres) being the minimum to live on comfortably brought a smile to my face which is usually quite difficult so early in the day when I read the news on line so thank you for that.
I am sure the local Greek communities and shop owners should make more of an effort to show their appreciation for you spending your hard earned money in their shops. However I doubt that you really contribute very much beyond normal living expenses as most of your major purchases will be made elsewhere and brought or imported from aboard. I don't know about yourself, and don't have time to research your posts, but many members on this forum seem to believe that local shop owners are "rip off merchants" and therefore source most required or desired items aboard if possible as I suspect you do also.
Taxes and many other things in life which are unavoidable impact on our lives and plans but if there is nothing that can be done to prevent these unwelcome events, I suggest you roll with the punches and make an effort to appreciate the good things in life - this will go a long way to reducing stress and unhappiness.
Cheers
Squeaky
Chris_Robb
Well-known member
Squeaky - I do believe the greeks should make sure they get tax from people who stay more than 183 days - but this can be complicated because they pay tax to another country (or should), and most certainly any one full time in a country MUST pay. What is wrong is asking tourists of 3 months - to pay a rather expensive tax. I suspect we will stay this year and enjoy it and then next year go home and sail Scotland's west coast - about 2 years earlier than we would have done. But we will be looking to cut other costs on the marina base - go cheaper - and eat out less. which means we will buy more greek wine!
1bobt
N/A
I think that sums up my position I am very unhappy with this "TAX", I will probable stay another year to see how it pans out ,shame really as I was ready to invest a lot of time effort and money into their economy
However it appears that the Greeks are so desperate to get more money, they will destroy their main source of income in the Islands, yacht tourism making it unsafe for me to invest.
I recently had an haircut in Poros ,talking to the hairdresser ,he told me that quite a few business that closed at the end of the season would never reopen as this years season although better ,was not profitable enough to cover the previously season losses .
Chris_Robb
Well-known member
Bob, that is a real shame. I know how much time effort and will you have put into your presence in Greece. It is much more serious than the Euro pundits say - (Greek is set to grow) If only. They have not addressed the points that are causing the problem. Cut government costs one hell of a lot more - enforce existing taxes on fixed targets - don't raise new taxes that will hurt income from abroad.
At the end of it let Greece France etc be a lesson to all voters - we are responsible for the type of government we vote in. Though in England we don't have any democracy any more. - (Mid Lotian question). So not sure how we can keep our governments on a sensible non voter bribing course.