New design of radar reflector?

[AntarcticPilot]

Think it'll catch on?

 

[johnalison]

I think you are only partly right. I believe that due to a miscalculation it was intended to put that object on the Moon in 1969 to improve the Moon’s radar signature, until someone invented a laser that would do it better.

 

[RAI]

An artist's impression surely.

 

[justanothersailboat]

You had me for a moment there with that thread title!

Catch on? It looks like it would catch on lines, sails, and passing ships. It might reflect rather better than most radar reflectors, certainly than mine. However as it is alleged art I almost certainly can't afford it - and the windage seems a bit high.

Radar reflectors have been troubling me lately. In principle I'd like to have a really effective one, not just a tick box one - but the recommended strength of radar reflector seems to be higher than any passive one I can actually buy. The actives, I'm told, work with some kinds of radar and not others - and they are expensive enough that I wonder if I could improve safety more by putting the money towards something else. Then there's where to put it. I see a number of boats with quite big bulbous ones on the front of the mast but I have a dated boat with a big masthead genoa and I can't see how I could do that without it presenting an obstacle to tacking. Maybe not a big obstacle but still...

I wonder if some ingenious sculptor, ideally one with advanced study of the dark arts of radio reflection, could devise a two-part one that went either side of the mast just above the spreaders? there seems to be room there and you could perhaps fit something in a case shaped to slide air over the mainsail rather than blocking it.

 

[johnalison]

You had me for a moment there with that thread title!

Catch on? It looks like it would catch on lines, sails, and passing ships. It might reflect rather better than most radar reflectors, certainly than mine. However as it is alleged art I almost certainly can't afford it - and the windage seems a bit high.

Radar reflectors have been troubling me lately. In principle I'd like to have a really effective one, not just a tick box one - but the recommended strength of radar reflector seems to be higher than any passive one I can actually buy. The actives, I'm told, work with some kinds of radar and not others - and they are expensive enough that I wonder if I could improve safety more by putting the money towards something else. Then there's where to put it. I see a number of boats with quite big bulbous ones on the front of the mast but I have a dated boat with a big masthead genoa and I can't see how I could do that without it presenting an obstacle to tacking. Maybe not a big obstacle but still...

I wonder if some ingenious sculptor, ideally one with advanced study of the dark arts of radio reflection, could devise a two-part one that went either side of the mast just above the spreaders? there seems to be room there and you could perhaps fit something in a case shaped to slide air over the mainsail rather than blocking it.

I always thought that masts should have a diamond pattern embossed into their whole surface to reflect radar. I dare say that someone is going to tell me that this wouldn't be man enough for the wavelengths involved.

 

[RAI]

My Echomax radar transponder covers both X and S bands. It's mounted on a pole on the stern. Of course, the range would be better if it were mast head mounted. But 20 nm is probably enough.

 

[mjcoon]

No, it's a super-hod! (Google's spelling-checker has not heard of them!)

 

[johnalison]

My Echomax radar transponder covers both X and S bands. It's mounted on a pole on the stern. Of course, the range would be better if it were mast head mounted. But 20 nm is probably enough.

My very old SeaMe is also mounted the stern, as is my radar, but I haven’t upgraded it to cover both bands as my cruising is no longer offshore.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I always thought that masts should have a diamond pattern embossed into their whole surface to reflect radar. I dare say that someone is going to tell me that this wouldn't be man enough for the wavelengths involved.

I'm afraid that's correct. The mast is too small for an embossed diamond pattern to be big enough for the wavelengths in question, or perhaps I should say that a diamond pattern large enough to be effective would catastrophically weaken the mast.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

In case anyone took the photo seriously, it's a photo of a sculpture in Kowloon Park, Hong Kong!

 

[LittleSister]

Think it'll catch on?

At least it's in the catch-rain position, unlike many,

 

[johnalison]

In case anyone took the photo seriously, it's a photo of a sculpture in Kowloon Park, Hong Kong!

I could tell that from the slit eyes. If the D of E can say it, so can I.

 

[LittleSister]

I always thought that masts should have a diamond pattern embossed into their whole surface to reflect radar. I dare say that someone is going to tell me that this wouldn't be man enough for the wavelengths involved.

I'm afraid that's correct. The mast is too small for an embossed diamond pattern to be big enough for the wavelengths in question, or perhaps I should say that a diamond pattern large enough to be effective would catastrophically weaken the mast.

You could try this one -

 

[johnalison]

You could try this one -

View attachment 173844

That’s that Russian thing from the 20s in miniature and painted red. I suppose that is politically apt.

 

[justanothersailboat]

Is that the Echomax that's £800 and still doesn't trigger on chirp/broadband digital radars? not that I begrudge spending £800 on safety when I have it, but that's a big chunk of having my own radar which might be a better change to my overall risk profile.

Yes, that red thing is a tiny Tatlin. I don't fancy using a full size Monument to the 3rd International as a radar reflector either. Think of the effect on marina fees.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

This might work - it's on a roundabout at Haverhill:

 

[LittleSister]

That’s that Russian thing from the 20s in miniature and painted red. I suppose that is politically apt.

Indeed it is a 10m high, 1/42nd scale model of the 'Tatlin Tower' - Artist/architect V. Tatlin's c1919/20 design (unbuilt, and probably unbuildable) for a 400m (1,300ft) tall (!) 'Monument to the Third International', , celebrating the Russian Revolution and containing offices, visitor facilities, lecture theatre and much else besides, intended to be built in what is now (once again) called St. Petersburg (Petrograd at the time). The design is considered a very important example of constructivist art, a very influential movement of which Tatlin was a founder. The scale model pictured, originally built in London, is now installed at the Sainsbury (arts) Centre, Norwich.

I suspect it would be as repellent to radar signals as it is to your political sensitivities!

 

[johnalison]

Indeed it is a 10m high, 1/40th scale model of the 'Tatlin Tower' - Artist/architect V. Tatlin's c1919/20 design (unbuilt, and probably unbuildable) for a 400m (1,300ft) tall (!) 'Monument to the Third International', , celebrating the Russian Revolution and containing offices, visitor facilities, lecture theatre and much else besides, intended to be built in what is now (once again) called St. Petersburg (Petrograd at the time). The design is considered a very important example of constructivist art, a very influential movement of which Tatlin was a founder. The scale model pictured, originally built in London, is now installed at the Sainsbury (arts) Centre, Norwich.

I suspect it would be as repellent to radar signals as it is to your political sensitivities!

They had the plans and a model at the RA ‘Russians’ exhibition not long ago. I’m something of an admirer of the Constructivists, though with a preference for the Supremacists, especially Malevitch. The artistic community, in all its senses, was keen to contribute to the Bolshevik new world of course, and it is rather ironic that Stalin put things into reverse. There is a lot to admire about the early USSR art world, and I don’t find it hard to put myself into their mindset when judging it. It is interesting that some significant work was also produced after and perhaps in spite of Stalin.

 

[LittleSister]

They had the plans and a model at the RA ‘Russians’ exhibition not long ago. I’m something of an admirer of the Constructivists, though with a preference for the Supremacists, especially Malevitch. The artistic community, in all its senses, was keen to contribute to the Bolshevik new world of course, and it is rather ironic that Stalin put things into reverse. There is a lot to admire about the early USSR art world, and I don’t find it hard to put myself into their mindset when judging it. It is interesting that some significant work was also produced after and perhaps in spite of Stalin.

The model now at the Sainsbury Centre (since 2017) is the one originally built at the RA in 2011.

 

[Sandy]

I see it is self draining. The purists won't like that.