New America’s Cup Boat - why ?

[Keen_Ed]

Agree with that.

I don't see a mono as a good foiling platform, and my fear is that we'll lose foiling tacks which will make the racing far less interesting as tacking will cost far too much.

I'm just not quite sure what this mono is supposed to gain over the multis. The only area that I think it looks better is the sheer scale.

Politics. ETNZ & Bertarelli were never going to stay with the AC50s, and the Italians demanded a mono. Here's the result. Bit of a clusterfudge (*) to my eyes.

 

[Chris 249]

The AC has got zilch to do with popularity. That is its niche.
J class and 12 metres were never mass market inclusive options.

One issue is that some people who have been involved with the "extreme ACs" say that they WILL increase the popularity of sailing, so if they are going to claim that it seems reasonable to address it.

Secondly, the Js, 12 Metres, Seawanhaka Cup boats etc were not mass market in themselves, but they were the big end of coordinated boats all built to the same rules that went all the way down to 30 odd footers or even smaller. There were "baby Js" like N and P classers racing at many clubs across North America; 6s and 8s throughout the world; and little boats like One and Half Raters in their hundreds around the world in the 1890s, at the same time that the bigger versions like Valkyrie II were racing for the AC.

I once sat down and counted the events the Big Class (which included the Js) did each year in the UK. They raced at something like 1/3 of the clubs, ports or regatta associations in existence, and they did it alongside other boats that were built to the same rule as the converted Js like Astra, Cambria and Candida. Authorities like Burgess, Vanderbilt, Herreshoff and Uffa Fox wrote explicitly how developments flowed up from 6 Metres, M Classers and other 'club racing' boats to the AC boats.

Even when the 12s were chosen, there were still active "mass market" local fleets of 8s, 6s etc, and apparently a class fleet of 12s in Norway as well as remnants in the UK and USA.

So while you're right that the Js and 12s were not mass market, they were arguably very closely related to their little sisters built to the same rules which were mass market, and which formed a very high percentage of the yachting scene. That's very different from the current scene, where the AC boats were pretty much the only wingsailed foilers and where they will now probably be the only really fully-flying monohull yachts.

The best analogy I can come up with is that the Js, 12s and Seawanhaka Rule types were their era's equivalent of a Maxi 72. As many writers of the time noted, the scale issue meant that they were much more conservative than their smaller cousins but generally similar in style.

 

[lw395]

But the extreme formula of AC seems to keep attracting sponsors and viewers?
A bit like F1 in cars.

It may be a short lived fashion though. Last time I really enjoyed watching it, this time many people seemed to have had their fill of it by the end of the semi finals?
That may be related to timing, relative to UK bar hours?

 

[flaming]

Politics. ETNZ & Bertarelli were never going to stay with the AC50s, and the Italians demanded a mono. Here's the result. Bit of a clusterfudge (*) to my eyes.

Yep....

I will be quite happy to eat my words if I'm wrong, but that thing looks unlikely to either encourage more teams to enter, or to give us better racing.

And as for trickle down.... Nope.... Where the foiling AC cats generated interest in foiling beach cats that probably wasn't there before, what's this supposed to give us? We already have the moth, and does anyone really expect foiling monos to become the norm for amateur yacht racing?

 

[dunedin]

.... and if going foiling, surely adding back ballast is a huge retrograde step. Makes slower, more stresses, needing more complex systems, and more costs. Just don’t get it.

 

[lw395]

Maybe it's a red herring to send the other teams in the wrong direction? Maybe the rule will be open enough to allow something sensible?

 

[Tomahawk]

What about Hydroptere as a platform design?

Looks like a mono... foils like a flying thingie.. And she is the fastest proper sailing boat in the world.

 

[Keith 66]

What about Hydroptere as a platform design?

Looks like a mono... foils like a flying thingie.. And she is the fastest proper sailing boat in the world.

Now that would be a spectacle. Wouldnt want to get it wrong crossing tacks though.

 

[{151760}]

Fast foiling boats could be fine. Match racing in Moths would be pretty good.
The AC seems to be prone to ill-conceived sets of rules. The issues with the cats are almost wholly about class rules which were framed for a non-foiling cat.
Remove or re-write those rules and you could have a foiling cat far superior to the last AC models.

Perhaps so. I'd certainly like to see it, but perhaps not as the America's Cup.

 

[michael_w]

Err, didn't Peter de Savary have a foiling monohull in 1987 - Blue Arrow. Ain't nuttin' new ...

http://www.americas-cup-history.at/english/blue.htm

 

[lw395]

Err, didn't Peter de Savary have a foiling monohull in 1987 - Blue Arrow. Ain't nuttin' new ...

http://www.americas-cup-history.at/english/blue.htm

That did not lift the hull, the windward foil pulled down, the leeward one lifted. So it was just about righting moment without ballast.
That seems a far more elegant solution than ballast.-

 

[Javelin]

Well I'm going to buck the trend and say that I'm looking forward to seeing these new boats fly.
I also think there will be a trickle down effect especially in the smaller light weight classes and some of the spin offs may be interesting.

I can see Hugo boss style foils appearing on a cruiser racer in the near future, they have a pair on the Figaro 2 though to my eyes they have them the wrong way round.
Canting, balasted foils are an interesting concept though the engineering required would make these prohibitive in anything other than out and out racers.
Balasted foils on their own however could work well if for example they replaced the normal dagger boards on a canting keel boat.

There is talk about the wing sails being hoisted instead of craning on and off so that will be interesting to see.
Plus the continuing development of light weight rigging systems, ceramic and titanium hardware which I'm starting to see.

 

[Fantasie 19]

Well I'm going to buck the trend and say that I'm looking forward to seeing these new boats fly.
I also think there will be a trickle down effect especially in the smaller light weight classes and some of the spin offs may be interesting.

I can see Hugo boss style foils appearing on a cruiser racer in the near future, they have a pair on the Figaro 2 though to my eyes they have them the wrong way round.
Canting, balasted foils are an interesting concept though the engineering required would make these prohibitive in anything other than out and out racers.
Balasted foils on their own however could work well if for example they replaced the normal dagger boards on a canting keel boat.

There is talk about the wing sails being hoisted instead of craning on and off so that will be interesting to see.
Plus the continuing development of light weight rigging systems, ceramic and titanium hardware which I'm starting to see.

Bravo...:encouragement: I read all the posts before this and I'm thinking, "where's the excitement, the anticipation?"... BAR have announced they're in... in a year or two you're going to be able to see a foiling 75 foot mono hull in the Solent. it bears no resemblance to my sailing experience at all, but neither did the cats, but I still found it immensely watchable, and to be honest, pretty awe inspiring...