More on 'Captain Calamity'

[Twister_Ken]

Re: More on \'Captain Calamity\'

"Loads of people ignore them."

Do you have any evidence that people with suitably equipped boats - that hear those calls – ignore them.

 

[Shorn100]

Re: More on \'Captain Calamity\'

Only the evidence of my ears and eyes.

I'm afraid I didn't take notes ready for the Court.

Sorry.

Shorn

 

[Alfie168]

Re: More on \'Captain Calamity\'

I am sure that most harbourmasters take the common sense view in addition to applying the law. They look at a boat and say 1) does it comply with safety regs 2) Is that skipper competent to take it to sea. I'd back their judgement on either count.

Bear in mind they also take these decision with big ships, we've had a few detained in Hull for not being seaworthy on one count or another. I think the same fundamental rules should apply to all vessels big or small.

Whilst we are all glad they are there, the blighters in lifeboats and/or helicopters should not have to risk their necks if the situation can be averted or mitigated beforehand.

I don't agree with vilifying the bloke, but we really need to look at the press, who as we know are just after a story, and don't really give a damn one way or another.

Tim

 

[damo]

Re: More on \'Captain Calamity\'

As someone who controls a sea lock, I am NOT allowed to prevent a vessel from leaving, even though the local VTS would like me to. "It is the skipper's responsibility to put to sea, etc etc".

On saying that I have spoken to some skippers to inform them that in my opinion the conditions/vessel aren't safe, and only once did the boat leave (0400, dark, no nav lights, heavy shipping movements,F5 on the beam, Bristol Channel spring tide, canal boat!!).

 

[Dyflin]

Re: More on \'Captain Calamity\'

[ QUOTE ]


Bear in mind they also take these decision with big ships, we've had a few detained in Hull for not being seaworthy on one count or another. I think the same fundamental rules should apply to all vessels big or small.



[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely nothing to do with the HM if a ship sails or not. Allowed into the harbour and where it goes in harbour yes, but detention is strictly for the port state control authority (the much maligned MCA in the UK).

 

[Billjratt]

Re: More on \'Captain Calamity\'

Well, Shorn, Maybe all these incidents you have witnessed should have been entered in your log. It can then be produced as a legal document in court to back up your assertions. If neccessary...

 

[Shorn100]

Re: More on \'Captain Calamity\'

Guilty as charged - on the other hand nobody's put forward any evidence that skippers are falling over themselves to help either.

 

[matelot]

Re: More on \'Captain Calamity\'

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming that safety inspection was voluntary?

It would be news to me if the coastgaurd or harbour master could enforce a safety inspection on a boat....

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me quote to you from the gloucester harbour bye laws - which are based on a standard set of laws approved by the govt for all harbours

" 17. The master of a vessel shall, so far as may be required by the Harbour Master in the exercise of his duties, afford the Harbour Master access to his vessel or any part thereof and provide all reasonable facilities for its inspection and examination. "

and "6. (1) Where the condition of a vessel is such that it is not or may not be seaworthy, the master of the vessel shall not move the vessel except to clear the main navigation channel or to moor or anchor in safety, otherwise than with the permission and in accordance with the directions of the Harbour Master. "

and "(1) Any person who contravenes or otherwise fails to comply with any of these byelaws, or any condition, requirement or prohibition imposed by the Harbour Master in the exercise of the powers conferred upon him by these byelaws, shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction - "

No doubt something similar applies to a harbour near you.

 

[Searush]

Re: More on \'Captain Calamity\'

[ QUOTE ]
Now these are dodgy flares

(cut)

[/ QUOTE ]

Oi, what you doin' goin' in my Flare locker? Gerroff, I'm saving them for my next "harbour master Safety Inspection". Once they find them, they won't look anywhere else!
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif No point chucking stuff away that is still serviceable.

 

[bilbobaggins]

Re: More on \'Captain Calamity\'

It's my understanding, from someone involved, that he used a mobile phone to make first contact Swansea Coastguard..... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[duncanmack]

Re: More on \'Captain Calamity\'

Does that not indicate that he mustapha da Almanac?

Naaaa, directory enquiries! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Knowingly.. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[bilbobaggins]

Re: More on \'Captain Calamity\'

Sorry, don't know. Too difficult.

What happened to your 'engine fire'? How did that come about, and how did you manage the consternation..... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[alan_d]

Re: More on \'Captain Calamity\'

[ QUOTE ]
We all have a duty of care to other people.

[/ QUOTE ]
Really?

Do you mean a moral duty or a legal duty? If the latter, what is the basis in law for your assertion? (Usually D of C means taking reasonable precautions not to harm others by our actions - quite different from protecting people from the consequences of their own behaviour.)

Alan

 

[cliff]

Re: More on \'Captain Calamity\'

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is it just me but isn't getting the bomb disposal squad involved with taking away old flares just a little OTT?

[/ QUOTE ]

Please tell me how to dispose of old flares? It's a subject that has been debated ot length many times on these fora, and we seem no nearer to getting an answer.

I've a few in my garage. Perhaps I should phone the bomb disposal people!

[/ QUOTE ]Remember, Remember the 5th of November. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif aka "OOD flare disposal night" - just be careful where you "dispose" of them.
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Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity

 

[cliff]

Re: More on \'Captain Calamity\'

In Shorn's defence, I can relate a first hand experience not so long ago of a vessel sinking not far outside the entrance to a marina in the CLYDE. CG put out an "All Ships" broadcast for any vessel in the vicinity of the casuality and not one sod replied. I was around 2 m off at the time so after the THIRD call by the CG I replied giving my location and ETA (20mins). CG thanked me but was sure other vessels were closer - "YES" I replied I can see the [--word removed--] ignoring the casuality and sailing (MOTORING) by. "No problem Sir we will launch the Largs lifeboat."

Stopped in Largs marina about shortly after to find the casuality already in the hoist. Owner was livid, not only at the boats that sailed past and ignored him but also at his own stupidity (his words) for not checking the drain bungs were in before launching (smallish cabin cruiser / day boat).

So YES it does happen - tossers do ignore calls for assistance from other boats.
---------------------

Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity

 

[Searush]

Re: More on \'Captain Calamity\'

Cliif;
Despite the requirement to do so, some boats do not/ can not maintain an adequate radio watch at sea. If singlehanding, and motoring, there is no way I will hear a VHF broadcast from the helm so I often do not bother to put it on.

However I do keep a good eyeball watch & would never knowingly ignore another boater waving or signalling for any reason. I remember approaching a puzzled French crew in Falmouth to warn them of the smoke coming from their boat - (excuzez-mois, Vous avez Beaucoup de fumer. Etes vous OK? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif) only to find that they were starting the Barbie while under way!

 

[Guest]

Re: More on \'Captain Calamity\'

[ QUOTE ]
"and continue to do"
Eh? Surely no-one's still falling for the 'Great' prefix?
Britain stopped being great when Victoria died.

[/ QUOTE ]

The name 'Great' Britain is an early example of spin.
Should really have been 'Greater' Britain, to distinguish it from Brittany.

 

[oldharry]

Re: More on \'Captain Calamity\'

Re Shorn's 'Duty of Care' to each other: I dont think so. I have a legal 'Duty of Care' to the vulnerable adults I am employed to support, which means I am responsible to ensure for example their bath water is not too hot, or that their seat belts are securely fastened. I can be prosecuted if I fail in my 'Duty of Care' in this specific situation.

But for goodness sake dont make me responsible for what the bloke on the next boat is doing as well!

Clearly the Harbour master feels he has the authority to prevent this guy from sailing, and I suspect some of us do not realise just how wide a range of powers and responsibilities a Harbour master generally has. It goes well beyond just organising moorings and keeping the harbour working properly, and they usually do have more jurisdiction, and therefore accountability, over us yotties than some of us might feel comfortable with!

 

[damo]

Re: More on \'Captain Calamity\'

"Duty of Care" is a sticky issue for professionals outside their normal working environment. A mountain guide once explained to me that he had a duty to intervene if he saw an unsafe situation, even if he was not working but out for his own enjoyment.

"But for goodness sake dont make me responsible for what the bloke on the next boat is doing as well!" -
you aren't responsible, but if you were a professional instructor you may have a responsibility to take some action.

A Harbour Master IS responsible for what goes on in his jurisdiction, and he would also want his waters and other users protected from Captains Calamity, never mind from themselves.

 

[guywilliam545]

Re: More on \'Captain Calamity\'

I'm finding it increasingly depressing that it's possible to have a debate on 'Duty of Care'.

Legal or moral, it shouldn't really matter; to turn a blind eye when it is clear that undesirable outcomes will result from events/actions, is wrong.

Well done to the Harbour master is my gut reaction!

On the subject of TEPs (Time Expired Pyrotechnics), please don't be tempted to use them on 5th November.

There are a number of good reasons for this:

1. The exp date is there for a reason, I wouldn't trust a flare that has been allowed to go along way OOD.

2. Flares are designed to be used over water (from boats), there is a strong risk of hot/still burning dross making groundfall.

3. It is possible that a flare can be mistakenly positioned as 'at sea' when in fact it had been fired from several miles inland.

The list goes on but this should be enough to discourage the 05/11 temptation.

91Blue.