qsiv
New member
Re: Hypothermia
Thanks - I'd like to think that it doesnt get much worse than this...
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Thanks - I'd like to think that it doesnt get much worse than this...
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MOB recovery - wider question
- Thread starter snowleopard
- Start date
qsiv
New member
Re: Hypothermia
It's always good when someone actually knows the detail!
That certainly ties up with my experience - the blood pressure was off the bottom of the scale of the funky new automated machine - they had to do it the old fashioned way. On the other hand my mother in law's pressure was off the scale at the other end. Technology - aint it wonderful.
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It's always good when someone actually knows the detail!
That certainly ties up with my experience - the blood pressure was off the bottom of the scale of the funky new automated machine - they had to do it the old fashioned way. On the other hand my mother in law's pressure was off the scale at the other end. Technology - aint it wonderful.
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vyv_cox
Well-known member
Re: Raggie MOB frequency
My sailing experience about the same as Ken's or maybe a few years more. Neither I nor any of my crew or visitors have ever gone overboard from our boat. We don't wear any particular safety equipment under normal - good conditions, harnesses and lifejackets at night, in fog or in most cases where we wear waterproofs (but not just in a rainshower in summer).
A friend fell overboard on a test sail in November, the lashings holding the guard wire were rotten and broke when he leaned on them. Another friend used to reckon to fall in on average twice per year, almost always boarding or disembarking from the tender. He knew he had this strange affliction but was always prepared for it. As far as I know he never had a serious incident.
Apart from these I have no direct knowledge of MOBs.
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My sailing experience about the same as Ken's or maybe a few years more. Neither I nor any of my crew or visitors have ever gone overboard from our boat. We don't wear any particular safety equipment under normal - good conditions, harnesses and lifejackets at night, in fog or in most cases where we wear waterproofs (but not just in a rainshower in summer).
A friend fell overboard on a test sail in November, the lashings holding the guard wire were rotten and broke when he leaned on them. Another friend used to reckon to fall in on average twice per year, almost always boarding or disembarking from the tender. He knew he had this strange affliction but was always prepared for it. As far as I know he never had a serious incident.
Apart from these I have no direct knowledge of MOBs.
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chriscallender
Active member
Silly billy, I don't think so... a very likely way that the crew (or me) has ended up in the water in the first place is to be struck by the boom. Remember that friend of Chris Evans, the experienced sailor that was killed in exactly this way in the Solent last year. If the risk assessment shows a need for pony bottles, personal EPIRBs and personal waterproof VHF then it must also show a need for head protection, because there isn't a lot of point in any of this gear if you end up unconcious in the water, and this is a very probable scenario.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that all the equipment is a load of rubbish, too expensive, etc. Of course I'd be suicidal to go sailing in a force 6 with no radio, my PJs on etc. I do have lots of safety equipment (including waterproof VHF which I keep attached to me on a lanyard). I wouldn't sail in a force 6 in winter through choice but if the weather forecasters got it wrong and I ended up in F6 then I do not have a drysuit to wear, or a personal EPIRB. So instead I would use my lifejacket with integral harness and two hooks, so that I was attached to the boat at all times.
My only point - do the simple things that have been shown to be effective over the years - wear a lifejacket and clip on - before worrying about personal EPIRB, GPS, drysuits.
Chris
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that all the equipment is a load of rubbish, too expensive, etc. Of course I'd be suicidal to go sailing in a force 6 with no radio, my PJs on etc. I do have lots of safety equipment (including waterproof VHF which I keep attached to me on a lanyard). I wouldn't sail in a force 6 in winter through choice but if the weather forecasters got it wrong and I ended up in F6 then I do not have a drysuit to wear, or a personal EPIRB. So instead I would use my lifejacket with integral harness and two hooks, so that I was attached to the boat at all times.
My only point - do the simple things that have been shown to be effective over the years - wear a lifejacket and clip on - before worrying about personal EPIRB, GPS, drysuits.
Chris
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chriscallender
Active member
Hi,
Its way less than 150 a day and not a common reason for launching the lifeboat. Groundings, engine failures, floodings and fires cause a lot more lifeboat launches. Plenty of them could easily be avoided but thats another thread.
Don't know the statistics but it seems from the coastguard press releases that a lot of the searches for people in the water are lost from commercial passenger vessels. But I know they don't put every incident on the web site.
Chris
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Its way less than 150 a day and not a common reason for launching the lifeboat. Groundings, engine failures, floodings and fires cause a lot more lifeboat launches. Plenty of them could easily be avoided but thats another thread.
Don't know the statistics but it seems from the coastguard press releases that a lot of the searches for people in the water are lost from commercial passenger vessels. But I know they don't put every incident on the web site.
Chris
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extravert
New member
Your assumptions on MOB rate sound like dinghy sailing, not yacht sailing. I do both. I and people I dinghy sail with MOB frequently from dinghies like Lasers. It's part of the game, and we are appropriately prepared. For yacht sailing, neither I nor any crew on any yacht I have ever sailed on have ever fallen overboard. I have never directly heard of a yacht MOB incident either, and I have been sailing for 32 years. Of course the risk is there of a MOB while yacht sailing, I am not denying that, but perhaps your recommendations should be reviewed now you know the vastly different incident rates of MOB for the different types of sailing.
<hr width=100% size=1>Adventures of the <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.xrayted.fsnet.co.uk>Teddy Bear Boat</A>
<hr width=100% size=1>Adventures of the <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.xrayted.fsnet.co.uk>Teddy Bear Boat</A>
Roberto
Well-known member
I have the impression the Mayday/not Mayday discussion is almost entirely theoretical.
With an often reduced crew, while you are throwing object overboard, lifesling, danbuoy, trying to stop or manoeuver the boat, keep eye contact with the COB (why only Men?), possibly start engine, disengage pilot if you have, half dead with fear... how can one possibly find the technical time to go inside the boat and talk in the radio?
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With an often reduced crew, while you are throwing object overboard, lifesling, danbuoy, trying to stop or manoeuver the boat, keep eye contact with the COB (why only Men?), possibly start engine, disengage pilot if you have, half dead with fear... how can one possibly find the technical time to go inside the boat and talk in the radio?
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Happy1
N/A
Extravert, I think that is where I may be getting confused, I have seen a lot of people falling off boats, but as you say they may be dinghy's, so when is Dinghy a yacht? SO if you fall of say a Dinghy on your own, why is that not OH SH.T MOB? PANIC, PANIC !! Doesn't make sense to me. If Dinghy sailers wear some special eqipment, why do sailers not, I take it the water is the same /forums/images/icons/wink.gif It must be easier when someone else is left on the boat to get you, than trying to get back on, on your own. People with RIBS have been known to go overboard on their own, they are still alive (well most), SO I am still confused but really interested in the debate. I have asked some of Motor Boaters and MOB is VERY rare, seems mostly at the getting on or off stage at the pontoon!!
As for getting hit with a boom. then why on earth not wear a special marine helmet, e.g. a Gecko, they are made for these type of things and are about £100, could save your life. I would think if you added uop people who have died as the result of being hit with a boom, it would be scary, if that was on land the Health & Safety would have brought in a law that you must wear a helmet.
Anyway, I await the reply to the Dinghy MOB, compared to the yacht MOB, It seems that some people with yachts are perhaps not so well trained, so get some better training and DON'T PANIC, DON'T PANIC, /forums/images/icons/wink.gif
It is all about staying alive, and looking after others and enjoying yourself.
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
As for getting hit with a boom. then why on earth not wear a special marine helmet, e.g. a Gecko, they are made for these type of things and are about £100, could save your life. I would think if you added uop people who have died as the result of being hit with a boom, it would be scary, if that was on land the Health & Safety would have brought in a law that you must wear a helmet.
Anyway, I await the reply to the Dinghy MOB, compared to the yacht MOB, It seems that some people with yachts are perhaps not so well trained, so get some better training and DON'T PANIC, DON'T PANIC, /forums/images/icons/wink.gif
It is all about staying alive, and looking after others and enjoying yourself.
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
Happy1
N/A
Re: Raggie MOB frequency
Coxy, Ken and others, thanks so much for your replies, I can see how being a MOB yourself could be forgotten if it is not so commonplace, bestthing is to always consider it when you arrive at the marina or wherever your boat is, before going near the water, that's where it seems to happen /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif BUT not a laughing matter really.
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
Coxy, Ken and others, thanks so much for your replies, I can see how being a MOB yourself could be forgotten if it is not so commonplace, bestthing is to always consider it when you arrive at the marina or wherever your boat is, before going near the water, that's where it seems to happen /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif BUT not a laughing matter really.
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
Happy1
N/A
Chris, I agree, and it seems that you are experienced and quite within your rights to select what level of protection you think is necessary. Just out of interest, why would you not wear a helmet, the Gecko ones have an inflatable liner, they could save a life one day ? Well I have certainly been made to think after reading thia thread, it seems I could sink under the weight of my safety kit/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif I am new to baoting and have done my risk assessment, that resulted in me buying all the kit, but it will take experience to give me the confidence to know what really is required. I guess there are big boats and little ones, that would have an effect on wha I chose, I have a 21ft boat, which I look on as small, so that was my reason. Thanks for contributing anyway, interesting. It would be nice to know if anyone has learnt anything from this debate and whether they would change anything as a result of this. May be difficult to be honest but that is how others will learn, including me.
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
Happy1
N/A
qsiv, why on earth does somebody not design the perfect suite for raggies. The materials are out there abd the knowledge and experience, but not the will to stay alive it seems. Or perhaps it is the thrill of going out thinking that if you went overboard you may very well DIE, well that is the true answer, if you are sending out a Mayday, isn't it?
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
Happy1
N/A
Roberto, WELL DONE, WELL DONE, I said that earlier thanks for backing me up. HOW MANY who would be left on the boat, had the skipper gone MOB would know how to send the DSC message, never mind give their position from a GPS and even worse from a chart if they have no experience. One hopes they will know how to turn the boat around!!! I have had three other members of my family VHF/DSC trained, SO they know what to do, everyone should do this, but granted at the moment the courses are a rip off price wise, £25 should be enough and 3 hours IF you pre-read the book. I spent 8 hours and it was just spread out to justidy the £80 each plus £19 for certificate of competency. At the VERY LEAST all crew should be briefed on the use of the radio and proceedure PRIOR to going out to sea, they are permitted to use it under the guidance of a certified person, whether that means you guiding them from 200mtrs away whilst an MOB I don't know, and I doubt you would care. BUT you would want them to know the basics. We did MOB drills on our training course, I can tell you even in training to was scary for some, it was also interesting to see others raections to an emergency situation. SO why not chuck a bucket overboard with a fender on and have a practice it can be good fun, and will show some people that it is not that easy.
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
Roberto
Well-known member
Are you D Mengele?
(Morbid) I remember having read that he+others compiled those tables..
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(Morbid) I remember having read that he+others compiled those tables..
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bigmart
New member
To give you some idea in around 25 years of sailing I have never been involved in a MOB, other than for practise.
Another point that you may wish to bear in mind is that many sailing yachts do not have easy access to the water other than by a ladder. Often boats are designed with a high freeboard (sides) which make it extremely difficult to recover a MOB.
As to risk assement you must remember that personal safety gear is useless if its not worn because it is uncomfortable or inappropriate.
Martin
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Another point that you may wish to bear in mind is that many sailing yachts do not have easy access to the water other than by a ladder. Often boats are designed with a high freeboard (sides) which make it extremely difficult to recover a MOB.
As to risk assement you must remember that personal safety gear is useless if its not worn because it is uncomfortable or inappropriate.
Martin
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charles_reed
Active member
An interesting thread - as I see it recovery is the last of several critical points in MOB recovery (and probably the easiest, IF THE SUBJECT IS FIT ENOUGH TO PARTICIPATE EFFECTIVELY).
1. Locating the casualty - a high proportion (Bill Bailey and Eric Tabarly) go overboard and are never seen again. If you've ever tried to espy a head in a seastate 6, you'll recognise the problem.
In a boat travelling at 7-10 knots, by the time someone has been able to unlash the danbuoy/horseshoe/whatever and cast it overboard it's at least 400m from the casualty and going downwind faster than the casualty can swim. A 121.5 personal EPIRB, providing the vessel has the necessary DF gear could be the most effective answer to that. Pushing the MOB button on the GPS can also be valuable providing it's done fast enough.
2. Bringing the boat alongside the casualty - even in the calm waters of a marina many of us have problems coming alonside a pontoon never mind drifting down onto some half-conscious head - I prefer the polypropylene bight to drag him/her alongside from downwind, 25mm is the one I use with some weight and substance to it.
3. Getting them aboard - the slightest sea and an aft boarding ladder becomes a certain recipe for the casualty being brained, far better to recover them over the side. Here you can actually use the roll of the boat to get them aboard - prefer to use the roller genoa sheets to maintain them in the position up the side each roll, brings them.
I've been overboard twice - both times with crew (I usually sail single-handed) and both times caused by an error on the part of the crew.
Each time I've got myself back on board - the first time I did have some assistance, the second they were still looking open mouthed when I arrived back swearing and dripping.
The big problem comes with casualties who, due to hypothermia are unable to do anything to help. Apart from using sheets and things like lifesling, both of which need a degree of casualty co-operation
1. I have an extra-long topping lift, used to swing the inflatable onto the foredeck (I've a gas-strut so it's never rigged), which has coped with a 224lb casualty. I put it onto the reefing winch, which was an Enkes 8 (now a self-tailing Antal 16). Far quicker and more controllable than the boom end.
2. Try inflating the dinghy, getting them into that and then into the boat (just make sure they're fast tho'). I've never tried that but 4 RNLI cox'n I know reckon it as a good safe method.
I have on board combined lifjacket/harnesses, it's the line which allows one to hoist yourself on board (I reckon you've about 20 secs before your clothes get waterlogged and it becomes impossible. One foot on the side of the boat and heave on the line as she comes up- once youve got the guardrail under your arm you're as good as aboard.
Of course about 40% of elderly males suffer thermal shock when they go in, combined with dread, resultant a coronary.
The length of the line is important 120cm, longer you go right in and get dragged under, shorter you're spreadeagled against the side of the boat like a fly in a web.
Of course as a single-hander all such concerns are utterly academic to me.
When I had my 1st boat and my crew were 7 & 9, I got knocked out by a really incompetent gybe and subsided onto the cockpit floor, unconscious, whilst my casquette bretonne went overboard.
I recovered to shrill excited cries and pummelling feet as the two boys brought the boat round, came alongside the hat and yanked it onto their recumbent father all wet and dripping. Just proves Man overboard drill is worth it.
Oh the hat, never managed to get it on again after it had dried and shrunk.
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1. Locating the casualty - a high proportion (Bill Bailey and Eric Tabarly) go overboard and are never seen again. If you've ever tried to espy a head in a seastate 6, you'll recognise the problem.
In a boat travelling at 7-10 knots, by the time someone has been able to unlash the danbuoy/horseshoe/whatever and cast it overboard it's at least 400m from the casualty and going downwind faster than the casualty can swim. A 121.5 personal EPIRB, providing the vessel has the necessary DF gear could be the most effective answer to that. Pushing the MOB button on the GPS can also be valuable providing it's done fast enough.
2. Bringing the boat alongside the casualty - even in the calm waters of a marina many of us have problems coming alonside a pontoon never mind drifting down onto some half-conscious head - I prefer the polypropylene bight to drag him/her alongside from downwind, 25mm is the one I use with some weight and substance to it.
3. Getting them aboard - the slightest sea and an aft boarding ladder becomes a certain recipe for the casualty being brained, far better to recover them over the side. Here you can actually use the roll of the boat to get them aboard - prefer to use the roller genoa sheets to maintain them in the position up the side each roll, brings them.
I've been overboard twice - both times with crew (I usually sail single-handed) and both times caused by an error on the part of the crew.
Each time I've got myself back on board - the first time I did have some assistance, the second they were still looking open mouthed when I arrived back swearing and dripping.
The big problem comes with casualties who, due to hypothermia are unable to do anything to help. Apart from using sheets and things like lifesling, both of which need a degree of casualty co-operation
1. I have an extra-long topping lift, used to swing the inflatable onto the foredeck (I've a gas-strut so it's never rigged), which has coped with a 224lb casualty. I put it onto the reefing winch, which was an Enkes 8 (now a self-tailing Antal 16). Far quicker and more controllable than the boom end.
2. Try inflating the dinghy, getting them into that and then into the boat (just make sure they're fast tho'). I've never tried that but 4 RNLI cox'n I know reckon it as a good safe method.
I have on board combined lifjacket/harnesses, it's the line which allows one to hoist yourself on board (I reckon you've about 20 secs before your clothes get waterlogged and it becomes impossible. One foot on the side of the boat and heave on the line as she comes up- once youve got the guardrail under your arm you're as good as aboard.
Of course about 40% of elderly males suffer thermal shock when they go in, combined with dread, resultant a coronary.
The length of the line is important 120cm, longer you go right in and get dragged under, shorter you're spreadeagled against the side of the boat like a fly in a web.
Of course as a single-hander all such concerns are utterly academic to me.
When I had my 1st boat and my crew were 7 & 9, I got knocked out by a really incompetent gybe and subsided onto the cockpit floor, unconscious, whilst my casquette bretonne went overboard.
I recovered to shrill excited cries and pummelling feet as the two boys brought the boat round, came alongside the hat and yanked it onto their recumbent father all wet and dripping. Just proves Man overboard drill is worth it.
Oh the hat, never managed to get it on again after it had dried and shrunk.
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Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Knowledge gap
Happy,
This is where your lack of sailing knowledge is letting you down. Dinghies are unballasted sailing boats. They rely on crew weight to keep them upright. It is relatively easy for a dinghy to be overpowered in a gust, and the crew (usually one or two people) are unable to react quickly enough to prevent the dinghy being knocked flat and perhaps totally capsized. That is part and parcel of the fun of dinghy sailing, both the crew and the boat in the water, not on it. Recovering from a capsize is generally not very difficult and is taught on day one of any dinghy training course. Except in the most benign UK conditions, dinghy sailors will wear wet or dry suits, with buoyancy aids, because they expect to get dunked from time to time. That's also why dinghy racing fleets almost always have one or more rescue boats (RIBs or dories) accompanying them, just in case a crew cannot recover from a capsize. Many dinghy clubs try to always have a safety boat on the water whenever any sailing is going on.
Yachts, on the other hand, are ballasted, and so even if knocked flat (rare) will bob back up again. Yachts do occasionally capsize (very, very rare), but except for the odd exception (Tony Bullimore springs to mind) they will also right themselves. Therefore, for the yacht sailor, the real trick is to stay on the boat, which we accomplish by moving carefully, by providing non-slip decking, by having a plethora of things to hang on to, by having guard rails to keep us aboard, and finally by wearing harnesses which are clipped on to strong points. To fall overboard from a yacht requires a high degree of misfortune, as well as (almost always) some carelessness on the part of the MOB.
To use your own risk analysis methodology, the risk of going overboard from a yacht may be as low as one per 20,000 days of sailing (i.e. never in a normal sailing lifetime) To wear full immersion protection based on that level of risk is not practical.
Having said that, some offshore sailors do wear full dry suits. This happens mostly with foredeck specialists on racing boats in heavy weather, where they can expect to be fully immersed from time to time while still aboard the boat. I personally have once been completely underwater while sitting in the bow of a boat, busy changing down to a smaller headsail. It was a memorable experience, and one which took my normal oilies completely by surprise!
<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Twister_Ken on 20/02/2003 10:41 (server time).</FONT></P>
Happy,
This is where your lack of sailing knowledge is letting you down. Dinghies are unballasted sailing boats. They rely on crew weight to keep them upright. It is relatively easy for a dinghy to be overpowered in a gust, and the crew (usually one or two people) are unable to react quickly enough to prevent the dinghy being knocked flat and perhaps totally capsized. That is part and parcel of the fun of dinghy sailing, both the crew and the boat in the water, not on it. Recovering from a capsize is generally not very difficult and is taught on day one of any dinghy training course. Except in the most benign UK conditions, dinghy sailors will wear wet or dry suits, with buoyancy aids, because they expect to get dunked from time to time. That's also why dinghy racing fleets almost always have one or more rescue boats (RIBs or dories) accompanying them, just in case a crew cannot recover from a capsize. Many dinghy clubs try to always have a safety boat on the water whenever any sailing is going on.
Yachts, on the other hand, are ballasted, and so even if knocked flat (rare) will bob back up again. Yachts do occasionally capsize (very, very rare), but except for the odd exception (Tony Bullimore springs to mind) they will also right themselves. Therefore, for the yacht sailor, the real trick is to stay on the boat, which we accomplish by moving carefully, by providing non-slip decking, by having a plethora of things to hang on to, by having guard rails to keep us aboard, and finally by wearing harnesses which are clipped on to strong points. To fall overboard from a yacht requires a high degree of misfortune, as well as (almost always) some carelessness on the part of the MOB.
To use your own risk analysis methodology, the risk of going overboard from a yacht may be as low as one per 20,000 days of sailing (i.e. never in a normal sailing lifetime) To wear full immersion protection based on that level of risk is not practical.
Having said that, some offshore sailors do wear full dry suits. This happens mostly with foredeck specialists on racing boats in heavy weather, where they can expect to be fully immersed from time to time while still aboard the boat. I personally have once been completely underwater while sitting in the bow of a boat, busy changing down to a smaller headsail. It was a memorable experience, and one which took my normal oilies completely by surprise!
<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Twister_Ken on 20/02/2003 10:41 (server time).</FONT></P>
Happy1
N/A
Bigmart, exactly, at least you practice, can you imagine the it will never happen to me lot, the panic on their arrogant faces, trying to use a radio they don't have a clue about whilst the MOB is now lost and they are sailing away from him/her while working out the radio. NO, well done mate. I think EVERYONE should practice MOB drills every week if going overboard COULD result in death, you have a duty to. As for getting the weight right to practice pulling someone in, it would be great if you had a real person to try with in very, very controlled circumstances, safety lines, divers on standby e.t.c Even having the opportunity of feeling what it is like yourself, freezing cold, trying to clamber up is frightening. AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT, it is the exact same prinicpal as a burglar alarm, if you see a shiny new alarm up your street, I would say the odds are very, very high that they have just been burgled e.g. bolting the gate after the horse has gone. That is money as well you see, but BY God, you find it when you need it. Same as MOB, if you have been in that situation you will do your utmost never to again, and if you do, you would want to be so prepared. Anyway everyone has to make their own choice. I am Commando trained, Arctic warfare and Arctic survival trained, I have also survived active service in war by being full equipped, not a joke when your life is on the line, but I have also seen many others die ill prepared, mostly the bodies of the enemy thank goodness. In my mind my survival has been down to my risk assessment and correct kit. I have served in both the Arctic and Antarctic including going through broken thick ice covered lakes into the water whilst ski-ing across on a night patrol, NOT pleasant I can tell you. That is behind me now, I am going to enjoy the rest of my life with my family, but I am there to protect them, I will never let them be put in a situation without a full risk assessment (it sounds formal, but you are doing it constantly in your mind all day). I have a 14mth old daughter, i have had to ensure I have covered all possibilites for her safety, and that is just pottering up a river in a small powerboat.
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
Happy1
N/A
Brilliant, very interesting.
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
Happy1
N/A
Re: Knowledge gap
Well Ken, I'm up for a challenge, but would not risk my family on that lark yet. Perhaps I need to give it a go, I always think it is good to understand the mentality of the enemy /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif Perhaps I will do a competent crew course to start, I don't want to get the big though, it seems to be hard work compared to sitting in the lounge of your motor cruier with your slippers and hot chocolate watching TV. I still don't unbderstand why dinghy sailers laughit of and climb back on, and you lot scream MAYDAY, MAYDY, MAYDAY, can you answer that bit, cheers
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
Well Ken, I'm up for a challenge, but would not risk my family on that lark yet. Perhaps I need to give it a go, I always think it is good to understand the mentality of the enemy /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif Perhaps I will do a competent crew course to start, I don't want to get the big though, it seems to be hard work compared to sitting in the lounge of your motor cruier with your slippers and hot chocolate watching TV. I still don't unbderstand why dinghy sailers laughit of and climb back on, and you lot scream MAYDAY, MAYDY, MAYDAY, can you answer that bit, cheers
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
Jools_of_Top_Cat
New member
Re: Knowledge gap
Ok, I will try. As posted above there is a certain knowledge that your chances of a dunking while dinghy sailing are in the almost probable, as your chances of falling from a windsurf are almost certain. You will be sailing in shallow or shallower water hance is should be warmer.
In a dinghy it is 80% probable that you have ended up in the water due to capsize, this means that say 2 crew and dinghy are now stationary in the water, the difference of watching your vessel dissapear over the horizon. It is also 100% that your crew mate in the dinghy is very aware that you are in the water, on a yacht it is not always certain that your crew saw you go!
People almost always dinghy sail in summer on nicer days, they are not launching into F4+ (generally). They are not going as far out, they can turn on a tuppence, and the big one, they WILL be wearing a lifejacket.
Also to point out, on most dinghys when you are sailing your arse is only inches above the water, most able people should be able to slide back into a dinghy. There is no way I could climb aboard my boat without help or the boarding ladder, if I was shivering I would probably require the dinghy to be launched so I could get out of the water.
Does that help.
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue> Julian </font color=blue>
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ukstaffords.com>http://www.ukstaffords.com</A>
Ok, I will try. As posted above there is a certain knowledge that your chances of a dunking while dinghy sailing are in the almost probable, as your chances of falling from a windsurf are almost certain. You will be sailing in shallow or shallower water hance is should be warmer.
In a dinghy it is 80% probable that you have ended up in the water due to capsize, this means that say 2 crew and dinghy are now stationary in the water, the difference of watching your vessel dissapear over the horizon. It is also 100% that your crew mate in the dinghy is very aware that you are in the water, on a yacht it is not always certain that your crew saw you go!
People almost always dinghy sail in summer on nicer days, they are not launching into F4+ (generally). They are not going as far out, they can turn on a tuppence, and the big one, they WILL be wearing a lifejacket.
Also to point out, on most dinghys when you are sailing your arse is only inches above the water, most able people should be able to slide back into a dinghy. There is no way I could climb aboard my boat without help or the boarding ladder, if I was shivering I would probably require the dinghy to be launched so I could get out of the water.
Does that help.
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue> Julian </font color=blue>
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ukstaffords.com>http://www.ukstaffords.com</A>
