MOB recovery - wider question

[Guest]

100% correct. Life jacket with integral harness and two safety lines so that as you move about you are always clipped on. Simple.

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[vyv_cox]

Survival time guidelines can be found at <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.weatherimages.org/data/imag487.html>http://www.weatherimages.org/data/imag487.html</A>

It is, and has been for several years, standard advice to raise a Mayday for a MOB. There is absolutely no comparison between a diver voluntarily going overboard from a stationary vessel and a person falling or being knocked overboard from a sailing vessel. The issue is not simply the water temperature, but stopping the boat and turning back, locating the casualty, getting back to him/her, effects of weather, short-handed recovery, possible injury and loads of other factors. Factor into this that it might be dark, only one person may be left aboard, and it becomes clear that almost any MOB is an emergency.

On the original recovery question, we spent a warm summer's day last year attempting to haul each other aboard. The first shock was that it was surprisingly difficult to obtain a fair lead for either the mainsheet or halyards to the primary winches. It's no good assuming that big winches will do the job - we repositioned snatch blocks about five times before finding a setting that would work. Next shock was that even using 6:1 mainsheet and our x52 genoa winches it was extremely hard work for me to haul my small wife aboard and almost impossible for her. We are now rethinking and will probably make some sort of experimental parbuckle for further tests.

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[Happy1]

Chris, you are being a silly billy, read the posts!!! RISK ASSESSMENT is the key. If I was going on a boat with waving booms or whatever you call them, I may wear a Gecko helmet (hard hat) and if you did not know about them, well that's my point!! If I was out in a force 6 in the winter, I would have my drysuit, EPIRB, hanheld VHF e.t.c. If you go out in a force six with your pyjamas on and no radio then you are a plonker. If you can't afford some of the safety gear, borrow it, I have LOADS /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

IF you have done your risk assessment properly you should be OK, and if anything happens not feel guilty as you could not have done any more.

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[qsiv]

Re: Hypothermia

The will to survive has to be the key -but that wasnt strong in my wifes case. Her temperature had dropped to 31.3 degC, certainly well into the danger zone. She was also past shivering, unable to speak coherently. She was quite observant of what happened, totally unable to feel pain. Not only was there absolutely no flinch reaction from all the needles (getting a big IV line in took 15 minutes of prodding as the core was releasing so little blood to the extremeties, but it was 3 hours after recovery that she started to complain of back pain - at that stage they xrayed and discovered the fractures - and strapped flat on spinal board post haste!

She had damaged her fingers - when she arrived it wasnt too apparent but as she warmed up and the blood started to reach the extremities they suddenly started to drip blood - very, very scary and upsetting.

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[Happy1]

Well done coxy, ineteresting. Please bear in mind I am NOT a sailer as I mentioned, so all this tick tak toeing back is gobbledegook to me, I am just talking about safety gear. See your experinec could help another, but practice IS important, some people have NEVER been in the sea and would be surprised at how cold, cold sea is, and the ffect it has on you.

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[qsiv]

The best I know of was someone I know, flying back from Bahamas to Florida after a weekends diving. He was solo, in a single (cessna). Half way across, engine fails. Maydays, trims plane for glide, dons wetsuit (its warm there), stab, bottle etc, and opens door.

As plan splashes and settles, he swims out, and 15 minutes later he talks the USCG cutter in using his handheld airways radio. Of and his shore clothes were still dry in his diving bag.

Goes to show - be prepared!

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[Guest]

Aye, Aye NM

*

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[BrendanS]

<<They are also very cumbersome and bulky - and at close to £1000 not in every recreational sailors budget.>>

Before you put everyone off the idea, they are available at 250 quid.

Got mine (a Rapide, about 350 quid) from Ravenspring, and is breathable, very comfortable, and is a tailored fit that is not at all bulky.

www.ravenspring.co.uk

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[AndrewB]

Re: Hypothermia

What a terrible experience. I hope all goes well for her.

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[Trevor_swfyc]

Mayday or not

This will depend entirly on the circumstances I have witnessed one death, one rescue made by me, two men overboard from a tender one person grabbed hold of a cat just downstream from me it was dark about 22.00 hrs.

The death was a dinghy sailor fell from a mirror dinghy by the time I spotted what all the fuss was about he had been upturned in the water for several minutes and looked like a discarded lifejacket. No mayday made reason far to late, postmortem death caused by heart attack.
The rescue by me, a women was being towed along behind a dragon yacht the two crew could not retrieve her. It was mid summer in the Crouch again no mayday. I took down the sails and followed the dragon to windward asked if the women could swim. She could so instructed her to swim to my yacht. She let go, a quick burst of reverse by me then engaged neutral (no prop rotation) she climbed up the ladder and I safely transferred her back to her boat.
Two in the water in the dark off Queenborough, we had been watching the fireworks from our boat at Queenborough it was their open day. Had just got our heads down when some commotion outside, I said to the wife sounds like they have had a few. Then realised something was wrong, one person was holding onto the boat downstream, fortunatly the person on board was holding onto him.Though he could not haul him onboard as he was very heavy and also holding onto the tender which he had fallen out off. Two rocket flares were let off from the cat this is eq to a Mayday.
This saved the mans life as both were picked up within 5 minutes by a rescue launch from Queenborough. The Coastguard were informed within 1 min of the flares hitting the water, which by the way nearly landed on my boat. When the s...
hits the fan you will have no doubt about making a Mayday. I for one was shocked by this event far more than the previous occurances.
I cannot see how you could see a person in distress and say sorry mate you should have been wearing your artic gear and stayed thin and healthy, so its your own fault and i'm not prepared to make a mayday call.
May we all have a safe season.

Trevor


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[bedouin]

Well I'm not going sailing with you then!

Standing orders on my boat, if someone goes in it is always MAYDAY - no question. (Under certain circumstances I might not, but the assumption is to send a Mayday ASAP unless there is a good reason not to.

Surprising as it may seem we don't spend all our time sailing in full survival suits!

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[Happy1]

Re: Mayday or not

Well done Trev, good to see trained experienced people who can help. What would have happened if you had not been there, or someone who left the prop running in the panic? We have to hope that we can all learn from others experiences good or bad. I don't think anyone is saying they would not help any poor soul who has been unfortunate to end up in the water, what I am trying to say is that we need to think about these things and when they happen, hopefuly our thought process will go into overdrive, even if remembering a scenario quoted by someone else on this forum. I think it is clear on here that you should be aware of the weight of wet clothing and trying to get people back on board, so make sure you have a plan for those circumstances. Whether that means assessing your own clothing, or recovery equipment on the boat, everyone has to take on their own responsibilities to do what they feel is best for them and their crew.

I think any examples would be useful to others, whether good or bad, I am learning from this forum everyday, long may it continue.

Safe boating & thanks for sharing the experience,

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[Happy1]

Remember I don't have the experience of sailing as I have made clear, I do believe that motor boating is totaly different as you will be back in seconds (as long as you realised you had a MOB) to retrieve the MOB. I had loads of practice the weekend before last, I really enjoyed the challenge of the correct and safe approach to the MOB. I have really had my eyes opened by the experiences of you lot on yachts, you are all either brave or mad. But good luck to you, maybe one day I will be brave enough to go on one of those things with little control if you fall off. I just can't realise how you can call it fun if it is that risky and scary if you fall off. Again I feel each circumstance has to be looked at in it's own right and dealt with acccordingly. Just out of interest what are the figures say for a summer weekend day in the Solent of Mayday calls for MOB's anyone know.

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[bedouin]

Most yachties are by their nature very safety conscious - If there is any serious risk of falling in then we wear harnesses, so there is really no excuse for having an MOB in the first place.

One of the most important things about MOB recovery (or any emergency) is that the response is a conditioned reflex. Hence the rule is "send MAYDAY" -



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[Happy1]

If what you say is true and that you would only fall in after a grave accident of some sort Ok, I was of the opinion that you lot were all falling off all over the place, that's why I would have liked to see figures, I guessed perhaps 150 a day or so, which would have the lifeboat ina nd out like a yoyo. If you are saying 1 a weekend, then that is different. Mind you with certain people not wearing life jackets, I can't imagine them bothering with a harness either, so that is why I thought there would be more. Perhaps people on here could give an indication of the amount of MOB's they have per year on their vessel.

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[bedouin]

MOBs are very rare (except during the Round the Island Race). I would imagine most leisure sailors have never had and MOB - and many professional skippers with tens of thousands of miles have usually only had one or two at most.

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[LadyInBed]

Re: Hypothermia

(Normal Body Temperature is 37°C)
(UK Sea Temperature seldom exceeds 16°C)

Effects of a fall in Deep Body Temperature
36-35°C - Rise in metabolism and respiration, sensation of severe cold,
Toes and fingers become painful, then numb.
35°C - Metabolism begins to decrease.
34.5°C - Respiration begins to decrease.
34°C - Heart rate begins to decrease, blood pressure falls.
Amnesia begins, shivering gives way to muscle rigidity,
mental confusion, semi consciousness,
communication becomes difficult to impossible.
32°C - Increasingly somnolent and pain resistant, aggravation of epilepsy.
30°C - Unconsciousness, pupils dilate, no tendon reflex, cardiac arythmas begin, respiration becomes irregular.
28°C - Respiration ceases, ventricular fibulation.
25°C - Death. (Failure to revive.) (This could be 6 or 7 hours for a naked body)

It is often the thermal shock of entering the water that kills rather than hypothermia.

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[Happy1]

Blimey and I spent all that money on the full kit for my little sportsboat with high sides, and you lot tramp around on the bare deck and only have that many!! I best get over to my side and see what is going on here, I will see how many of them have MOB's and report back. I was and am still of the opinion that you fell off your boat at least once a month!

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[Twister_Ken]

Raggie MOB frequency

In 30 something years of active sailing, I have been o/b twice, neither time 'at sea'. Once when getting from a yacht into a launch in a seaway, once slipping when about to jump onto a pontoon. I have only ever seen people in the water twice, coincidentally both on the same day, one as the result of a fall, the other as the result of a sinking. I have never heard a MOB mayday shout - except on the day mentioned above.

So MOBs are not commonplace amongst raggies. It is a very rare event on a well run boat.

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[qsiv]

Thanks for that - I had looked - bt ruled them out for sailing use - they look good for motor boats/ribs.

At a trivial level, most offshore sailing drysuits are a HiVis colour, provide a hood, and most importantly an inflation tube to adjust bouyancy/insulation. They also tend have articulation in the elbows and knees, cordura/kevlar abrasion pads on knees and bottom, non slip surface to same areas. The ravensping doesnt appear to have a cuff at the foot to avoid filling boots with water, nor any hand warmer pockets. It's not easy to see but the ravenspring doesnt appear to have reflective strips (oh I see they're an option).

I think the very fact that the citations are from an Optimist sailor sugest that the intended market is inshore, not offshore.

Nonetheless great value

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