MiToS re-built/fit- versilcraft Mystery43

vas

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Well I have loads of new Garmin stuff left over becuase it has been replaced by the glass bridge stuff. I mean, fairline installed it during the build and last week it got ripped out during the garmin 8000 install. I'm happy to donate foc to your wonderful project.

I need to do a stock check but I think I can pull together a 19x GPS mushroom, three or 4 GMI10 units (2 for each helm), and enough Ts and drop cables to make a small n2k network. N2k is not ethernet or Cat5 cable; it's 4 or 5 core with special connectors which are eBayable. For this to be any use you need one plotter with n2k port, and that plotter can then read the GPS data and also talk its data onto the n2k network. It sounds like you have that. That one n2k-enabled plotter can then talk GPS data via its nmea 0183 output so as to feed data to the other non n2k plotter. Maybe someone on here can do a schematic.

My 19x gps mushrooms are the latest and greatest 10hz variety. Can you find out from garmin if your plotter can handle 10hz rahter than the typical 1 Hz?. I'd like to be sure it all works with your existing kit rather than ship you a pile of stuff that just wont work, as I might as well just eBay it myself

thanks for the extremely kind offer J and sorry for the late reply!

I cannot turn that down :D
I'll gladly take th GMI10s and the Ts/drop cables, as they fit nicely with my 3006C plotter.
The 19X (NMEA2K I assume) is not in the compatibility list, and from reading the forums the 19X 0183 version needed a resistor to work with the 3K series plotters :(
Tried to ask at the Garmin online thing, but got an automated reply that I should contact the local dealer (and that's a joke...) OTHO, I'd expect that something that's working to a particular standard should be able to perform once connected (maybe even down to the crippled 1hz rate???) but I know "standards" is a nice word often meaning nada.
Will have another go at finding out, if not, I think you should keep that and I'll get a 17X for 35quid and be done with.

again thanks a million!

------

Update following a 13h session on MiToS yesterday (followed by a 10h nap, so not to be done often methinks!)

I worked on, rather under, the galley floor. There's a largish area (enough to keep a couple of reasonably sized dead bodies if one has to :p ) where a cabling duct goes through smack in the middle for some odd reason and where previous owner kept all the regulation safety equipment (life jackets, lamps, flares, disk, etc) at some point they managed (with great difficulty I guess!) to install the flex canals for the aircondition. IMHO they made a mess out of the whole thing, designwise with pipes visible and exceptionally badly routed. So after a couple of hours of testing routing and headscratching, came up with a system of bringing the pipe behind the (now under preparation for painting) galley cabinet and then have an outlet on the salon at the corner of the sofa and another one at the galley above the sink. should cover half the area around there, there's going to be another outlet above the heavily modified corner cabinet on the stbrd side of the salon, only it's an absolute bitch to cut the right hole on the flooring to get the pipe through. There's also the option of getting the second outlet at the thread of the step going from the salon to the galley, but it's too low for comfort and if you go by the hvac rules, totally wrong.

galleydismantle_11.jpg


galleydismantle_12.jpg



BTW, yesterday was overcast (seriously!) so the following pics show the humidity, hg and temp at the chart table. There was also an v.welcomed breeze from the NW (the exact orientation of the aft deck). So conditions were ideal to work in the area.

thb_1.jpg

11:15

thb_2.jpg

13:00

thb_3.jpg

15:00

and no after the last photo the breeze died out and temp went further up :( so I moved down below for cooler work environment...


Also drilled a hole for a special alcove in the port cabin, utilising the space that I cleared by moving the aircon ducting towards the rear of the space. A similar one to be done on the stbrd cabin. Forgot to take pics though, doh!

Using thin (maybe too thin) carton, I modeled the above bed hull lining. Talking about strips of around 500mm high and where the port windows are. Did the bow cabin ones in 6mm ply so that I'll send them to my ali window constructor to cut this alucobond 5mm thick sandwich aluminum foil, rubber, aluminum foil in shape. Then I'll bolt/glue them in place so that it "takes" the slight curvature and once removed can be refitted without issues.
Plan is to do the upholstering and this hull lining for now and do the ceiling after she's afloat. Need to also make sure there's no leaks from rain/splash from the replaced decks and it's much easier to do that without the lining :D

Making a long list of things to do on Fri/Sat morning in Athens:
picking up the 100lt black water tank
finding suitable sender unit that will cooperate with my BMS system and so i'll skip the gauge
a couple of bow cleats in ss as the alloy ones are almost impossible to restore (me thinks at least)
a few skin fittings for grey/black water tanks and ventilation of the latter
search for replacement anode for the QL bowthruster. Wonder if anyone knows where to get them online? Was thinking of making a mock now before using it so that I can then produce copies.

ah, and another one that puzzles me:
do I just pull cabin/helm hatches up or do I add flush hinges for them??? I understand that pulling and storing (er temporarily on the bed most likely...) is easy, but there's lots of danger of scratching/scoring/damaging in general the upholstery.

Left elbow's had enough of holding the heat gun and more or less packed up, right wrist (damaged from cycling 30yrs ago, still going strong, but aching a bit..) so for the final bit of stripping the rest of the hull above the waterline, I'll employ a good friend for a week or two.

Alf, measured the L shaped cabinet, cannot really switch the fridge and oven positions (fridge wont fit under the galley hob!) so George is happy as nothing altered in the cabinets. That's the state they are today:

cabinetmodsrepairs_14.jpg


cabinetmodsrepairs_15.jpg


cabinetmodsrepairs_16.jpg



JFM, if you remember the discussion on the black water pump, I came across two Rheinstrom large diaphragm pumps type MRG 24 s/h of course on ebay and got them for 30quid each plus another 50 carriage to reach Greece. Hope you approve, mind list price around 700euro so I guess should be reasonably good :rolleyes:
I'll install the one on the black water tank and keep the second on the manual manifold bilge system at the lazarette.

Similarly I now have two whale gulper 220 pumps, one for the grey water tank the other will live nearby as part of the cabin area automatic bilge system.

cheers

V.
 

jfm

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Pumps sound good. Kitchen cabinets look good. Your climate instruments look very retro-sexy. Good going Vas!

On electronics I'm thinking the below pictured system. It's a starter-for-ten so anyone might improve it - please anyone comment with improvements. I need to stock check but think I can send you (foc in appreciation/admiration of your thread and efforts!)...

4 GMI 10 colour screens
All the Garmin T's that form the backbone
All the drop cables to connect devices to the backbone (mixture of lengths, 1m or 5m, which do you need?)
The 2 end resistors for the backbone
The yellow power cable to power the backbone

PM me an address to ship to sometime. But we should get the circuit correct first as I don't want to miss something and have to send a second shipment! So please can you check the picture and can anyone who understands this stuff comment on whether it is ok?

I also have a brand new 1 Hz GPS mushroom, n2k, 2 months old. (Stupid shaggy dog story about how I come to have this, urgh). But it is Raymaine and they use their own n2k connectors, the stupid sods. Can you just cut the raymarine drop cable and splice it to a Garmin drop cable, so a Raymarine device is installed direct to a Garmin backbone. You should be able to, but I'm not sure. Anyone know? It would be good to answer this before I package up the box to send to you so I send the right stuff

MiTosnavelectronics.jpg
 

vas

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Pumps sound good. Kitchen cabinets look good.

thanks!

Your climate instruments look very retro-sexy. Good going Vas!
tbh, I didn't remember they existed, they were stuck on the bulkhead between salon and galley at the spot I had to drill a 100mm hole for the aircon vent, that's how I got them and since I'm v.well organised, I just dumped them on the chart table :p


On electronics I'm thinking the below pictured system. It's a starter-for-ten so anyone might improve it - please anyone comment with improvements. I need to stock check but think I can send you (foc in appreciation/admiration of your thread and efforts!)...

4 GMI 10 colour screens
All the Garmin T's that form the backbone
All the drop cables to connect devices to the backbone (mixture of lengths, 1m or 5m, which do you need?)
The 2 end resistors for the backbone
The yellow power cable to power the backbone

PM me an address to ship to sometime. But we should get the circuit correct first as I don't want to miss something and have to send a second shipment! So please can you check the picture and can anyone who understands this stuff comment on whether it is ok?

I also have a brand new 1 Hz GPS mushroom, n2k, 2 months old. (Stupid shaggy dog story about how I come to have this, urgh). But it is Raymaine and they use their own n2k connectors, the stupid sods. Can you just cut the raymarine drop cable and splice it to a Garmin drop cable, so a Raymarine device is installed direct to a Garmin backbone. You should be able to, but I'm not sure. Anyone know? It would be good to answer this before I package up the box to send to you so I send the right stuff

MiTosnavelectronics.jpg

OK, all sounds perfect!

give me a few days to do my night time studying on N2K and a bit more on NMEA0183 and signal multiplexing (if necessary!) and I'll come back to you on what might not work. Judging from what I've read around on forums even the raymarine mushroom would work.

One thing missing in the whole network (which looks absolutely fine to me) is the NASA AIS3 engine which is also NMEA0183 (but that's not your fault, I forgot to mention it, sorry)

Now, turns out that I have two bits of hardware that need to be shared to both systems: AIS and sounder. One is NMEA0183, the other is a dedicated garmin thingy that can be connected to either devices.

Sounder is fine, connect to the 3006C and hopefully the f/b 520 will pick the depth info via NMEA0183 (got to check but pretty sure it will be exported in the 0183 sentences). TBH don't care on fishspotting on a 5inch screen under the sun, so no compromises there.

AIS again, can be the second NMEA0183 in of the 3006C.

So, summarising:

A. AutoPilot gets the first in and out of the 3006C
B. AIS gets the highspeed in
C. 520 gets the second out. Now that's tricky as it has to be at low baud (from my understanding) and hence AIS will be definitely "interesting". I can wire the alarm function to a set of nice ding dong bells under the helm and if somethings spotted as dodgy on the 3006C downstairs the bells will ring upstairs :D

So 2XNMEA0183 in/outs are fully loaded and the system can work even on the 520 alone for simple viewing of the map (520 has integrated GPS antenna) I'll check the specs of the 3006C in case I've messed up with something.

I hope PaulGooch picks this up as he's helped before on Garmin stuff...

cheers

V.
 
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Robg71

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vas

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All sounds good to me Vas. Cogitate for a bit, get PGooch and other input on here, and I'll ship next week :)

hm, a bit of reading says I was talking bull...
GPSMAP 3006C is Garmin marine network but not N2K compatible!
temped by your v.kind offer to put it for sale as soon as I get it in my hands and get a decent 700series plotter (and accept your offer)
Else unfortunately I have to pull back :(

Have you tried airmar in St Malo, france.
they are the manufacturers.

http://www.airmartechnology.com/2009/products/marine-product.asp?prodid=36&manf=

yep, there's a grey area on 6 vs 8pin transducers, more links than not say the B60 is a 6pin job and that's what I want for my GSD20 black box sounder. ebay have them listed for 200usd (but at that price I'm about to get another 30-50euro tax on top...)
So, need to find a EU dealer for

AIRMAR 31-556-6-01


cheers

V.
 

jfm

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GPSMAP 3006C is ... not N2K compatible!
Oh what a shame. My stuff is useless without an n2k plotter, obviously. It aint going anywhere, so I'll keep it here with your name on it and not let it go without telling you first, in case you manage to find a n2k plotter somewhere. Surely some will come onto eBay as people upgrade to Garmin 8xxx series.

Come to think of it, if you prefer I can send it anyway, so you can install the cables as you build and then just hope to get a n2k plotter just before launch of MiToS? That might make more sense? Let me know, and PM shipping address
 

Robg71

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yep, there's a grey area on 6 vs 8pin transducers, more links than not say the B60 is a 6pin job and that's what I want for my GSD20 black box sounder. ebay have them listed for 200usd (but at that price I'm about to get another 30-50euro tax on top...)
So, need to find a EU dealer for

AIRMAR 31-556-6-01


cheers

V.

I think they can fit whichever plug you need.
With the garmin sonar unit I bought, it came with an adapter box for bare cable installation of various different transducers, so it may be worth a call.
 

vas

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Oh what a shame. My stuff is useless without an n2k plotter, obviously. It aint going anywhere, so I'll keep it here with your name on it and not let it go without telling you first, in case you manage to find a n2k plotter somewhere. Surely some will come onto eBay as people upgrade to Garmin 8xxx series.

Come to think of it, if you prefer I can send it anyway, so you can install the cables as you build and then just hope to get a n2k plotter just before launch of MiToS? That might make more sense? Let me know, and PM shipping address
indeed :(

just checked the svb online shop and this is quite tempting at 999euro!
Annoying thing is it has no video in or out as I'd like to be able to wire a camera in the e/r or route the output in the salon TV...
Give a week or two to see how much painting MiToS is going to set me back and I'll tell you ;)

I think they can fit whichever plug you need.
With the garmin sonar unit I bought, it came with an adapter box for bare cable installation of various different transducers, so it may be worth a call.
Rob all that sensor cabling is annoyingly complicated!
Do you mean you got the sensor and you could simply use different cables (selected at ordering time I guess) to connect it where you wish?
So any 20deg tilt sensor should fit?


and another update following a return trip from Athens with the car loaded with sanitation/bilge pipework, blackwater tank and other stuff.

First, greywater tank (Whale 16lt) is finally in place. Position chosen (after a good couple of hours of moving it about, lots of headscratching and checking routes from sinks and showers) at the centre of the hul under the bow cabin heads but easily accessible through the bow cabin hatch. Had to construct a frame bolted on the hull frames, making sure there's a slight slope towards the end where the outlet lives. The way I mounted the pump on top of it means that even if it fails I wont make a great mess out of it as I can simply remove the pump and fit the backup (or replace diaphragm on the spot)

graywatertank_2.jpg


graywatertank_3.jpg


graywatertank_4.jpg


Placement of the blackwater tank (100lt) was a much easier affair as it only fits under the port cabin bed. Mind even with the massive (yet to arrive) diaphragm pump the whole thing will be lower than the cabin floor. Routes from the two heads will be reasonably short and definitely downhill. Hopefully I wont have smell issues from sewage water remaining in the pipework.

PIPEWORK Qs

A. both tanks are under the w/l. Exits will be 100-200mm OVER the w/l. DO I NEED LOOPS fitted on both??? If the answer is yes, HOW high above the w/l should that go?No seacock at outlets obviously.
B. vent for the blackwater tank (got the filter btw) should be not in close proximity with cabin ports or salon windows. Yeah rite, so wtf do I drill for the vent fitting??? I thought of moving it back to the e/r and exit it just towards the bow from the lazarette, but not sure!


Further work carried out on the bow thruster tunnel. (ah, found a shop selling anodes in Pireaus port that had the QL fancy shaped anode for 8euro-got a spare one)
Matched and smoothened the hole on the hull ply plus one of the stackups on port and two on the stbrd. Remember first stackup is shaped to be the inner dia of the tunnel, the other two are the outside (effectively bowthruster tunnel goes through the piece #2 and #3)
Corrected some discrepancies on hull/tunnel endings and if my back plays ball, I'll have it ready for epoxying the lot tomorrow.

bowthruster_27.jpg


bowthruster_28.jpg


bowthruster_29.jpg



A friend came to help in hull stripping as my left arm is not happy at all atm and with a bit of help from me (he works 6h I work 2 :rolleyes: ...) I hope we'll finish the port side by the w/e. Need to also remove the port decorative frames, paintstrip and repaint them.

hullstripping_115.jpg


hullstripping_116.jpg


and as you can see from the pics above, I removed the cover over MiToS to start a few bits on the f/b plus finilise repairs around the helm windows and get in the painting phase.

On the cabinet front, George's finished surface preparation for the galley and salon cabinets and today sprayed the first coat of primer. Will check it tomorrow and report.
The galley cabinet with a drawer where the oven will fit. Now bear with me on this one... Since the opening wasn't large enough there's only a 190mm door to the left of the oven to give access to a massive (ok, relatively speaking...) corner cabinet. And that's not going to work, arm's not long enough. So after a lot of thinking we came with the idea of using an inverted blum drawer mechanism so that with a latch I can have the oven in the right spot and lifting the latch I can push the oven inside effectively under the side decks and then have decent access to the cabinet. You'll see it in action soon I hope ;)


cabinetmodsrepairs_17.jpg


cabinetmodsrepairs_18.jpg


The following pic is of the port cabin drawers where I had to replace the flush switches and sockets with the Vimar stuff. No way I'd have that horizontal in there, so I designed an v.orthogonal approach to it which I didn't like and eventually went for a wedge shape. To be photographed tomorrow.
cabinetmodsrepairs_19.jpg


Final pic is again from the port cabin showing this low hatch, good enough for the son to store lots of "necessary" carp and still keep the place tidy (although it's rather unlikely...)
bulkheadredesign_45.jpg



hopefully more to report in a couple of days.

cheers

V.
 

vas

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two days of full 10h work and two more to go this week.

Managed to sunburn by back after working on the f/b yesterday (in and out, but a fair amount of time with no t-shirt up there) And it was bloody overcast (but hot!!!)
anyway, managed to fit the el. plugs for the f/b, the vhf and a nice ss vent for the lower helm that reaches crazy temps at noontime. Forget the second 75mm hole on port, just an unfortunate event (drilled on wrong marker, doh!) will fill tomorrow when I glue the bow thruster tunnel. Also routed all cabling to the f/b with 2 8core cables for A/P and various NMEA0183 signals available since I want to sort out upholstery panels on the lower helm and slowly remove all carp off the salon in order to replace flooring panels there and start the refit.

fb_helm_55.jpg



On the bowthruster tunnel front, I've matched and got a nice fit on three layers of 15mm ply on both sides. The idea is that the first layer is where the tunnel rests, the other two are around the tunnel, effectively keeping it in place. Worked fine except for the approximate 30times of me going down the ladder to the hard, checking placement of the tunnel vs the hull on both sides, marking, climbing up again, removing panels and tunnel, trimming, modifying accordingly and doing the same loop again. Rather tiring I can tell you :(

Test fitting the gearbox and motor (motor is exceptionally heavy shifting it about in there is a major thing...
bowthruster_30.jpg


bowthruster_31.jpg


bowthruster_32.jpg

fits nicely with the whole transmission sitting 8mm offcentre but I wont bother tbh.

Port side:
bowthruster_33.jpg


stbrd side:
bowthruster_34.jpg


Plan is tomorrow with the help of George to glue all these layers of ply and the tunnel in place (AFTER remembering to drill the 20mm hole I've marked for the axle to the propelers :rolleyes: )

Then over the w/e sort out the chamfering of the hull ply around the thruster tunnel, and shape the wedges I want to fit towards the bow of the tunnel holes to deflect smoothly the water bypassing the wider aft part of the tunnel. Can be seen a bit in the bow pic below:

hullstripping_118.jpg



Left this pic for last as I really really like it for some reason (although hull is a nasty patchwork but it's coming along nicely)
PORT SIDE FINISHED :D :D
hullstripping_117.jpg



Just managed to get a flooring layout for the main heads that I really like and need to check, mock and built it over the w/e. Too tired to explain, will show some pics from the mock soon

cheers

V.
 

MapisM

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Blimey V, your last two pics reminded me of a dozen of years ago, right after purchasing my boat, when I decided to strip the hull to bare wood and reapply the a/f, after a proper treatment.
At that time, I thought it was a massive job...
...but I hadn't yet seen what you're doing with MiToS! :D
Bow_zps13ed7e7c.jpg
 

rwoofer

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What both amazes and impresses me is how you manage to keep your work productivity so high for such a long job. If anything takes me more than 3 or 4 days the productivity drops off noticeably.....
 

vas

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Blimey V, your last two pics reminded me of a dozen of years ago, right after purchasing my boat, when I decided to strip the hull to bare wood and reapply the a/f, after a proper treatment.
At that time, I thought it was a massive job...
...but I hadn't yet seen what you're doing with MiToS! :D
Bow_zps13ed7e7c.jpg
:D
I also consider that job in the "one in a lifetime" to do list.
If/when it needs done again, I'll be tempted to subcontract ;)

What both amazes and impresses me is how you manage to keep your work productivity so high for such a long job. If anything takes me more than 3 or 4 days the productivity drops off noticeably.....
well, it's a long job, but has so many varying sub-jobs that means you can v.often do new things ;) Hence my seemingly chaotic progress as I do a bit of paint stripping a bit of cabling and designing in the same day.

Drawers in the port cabin got the slanted ending for the sockets-I still cannot believe they had sockets placed horizontal, any liquid spill and you were in for some trouble or even fire!
cabinetmodsrepairs_20.jpg


cabinets got the first few coats of primer and are looking v.good:

cabinetmodsrepairs_21.jpg


After a lot of sketching and testing, I decided on the flooring layout and drainage of the main heads compartment. It's not easy, it's not orthogonal but should be v.functional.
testing the bowl position (need to temp fix the sink today and do some more measurements but have to cut and fit the floor first as it's getting v.tiring doing circus routines all the time...

bulkheadredesign_46.jpg


bulkheadredesign_47.jpg


Finally, happy to report the bow thruster tunnel work is almost over (as in fixed, epoxied, smoothed)

Here is the two 15mm layers of ply worked together to get the curvatures right. Haven't had so much fun with wood for decades! OK, I know I'm sad...
bowthruster_35.jpg


bowthruster_36.jpg


Port side epoxied and smoothed:
bowthruster_37.jpg


bowthruster_38.jpg


stbrd side see through the tunnel
bowthruster_39.jpg


bow view looks dead centre and symmetrical (ok, not only looks it is ;) )
bowthruster_40.jpg


Time is running out, planning and hoping to be back in the water before the end of July, so now prioretising jobs that need to be done outside, leaving a lot of upholstering and fitting to be done in the water.

cheers

V.
 

rwoofer

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Now I understand the logic of why you did the tunnel that way...some things you just need to see complete to understand.
 

Robg71

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Annoying thing is it has no video in or out as I'd like to be able to wire a camera in the e/r or route the out

Rob all that sensor cabling is annoyingly complicated!
Do you mean you got the sensor and you could simply use different cables (selected at ordering time I guess) to connect it where you wish?
So any 20deg tilt sensor should fit?



V.

Sorry for not getting back to you earlier, (currently doing a hyperbaric weld on a gas pipe) but in essence... yes... I had a chat with airmar after several confusing and conflicting websites...
 

CMJ

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Well I have loads of new Garmin stuff left over becuase it has been replaced by the glass bridge stuff. I mean, fairline installed it during the build and last week it got ripped out during the garmin 8000 install. I'm happy to donate foc to your wonderful project.

Very generous and what a gentleman.
 
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