Med Winter Liveaboard Suggestions Please

[Graham376]

Graham where you coming from dual tax don't come into it , you still in most counrty have to fill in a tax return if your a resident in that country , you may not have to pay any tax because of the dual rules but you still have to fill it in .
By what you wrote in the pass I think you are one of the few who does .
And again people are bending the rules , it's clear one of the condition of residency in most country's is you live in that country for a min of 183 days , stop trying to say other wise .
I'm just waiting for the day someone wakes up to find a notices on their boat like what had happen here in Italy a few years ago and what happen quote a lot in Spain in different region when custom have issues tax mport demands because the owner was a resident.

What are you on about? Read my post again, I have never suggested people should ignore the 183 day rule.

As for tax, no I don't file returns and neither does my wife who is a citizen. Contrary to the "rules" tax office said not to bother as we have no income here, we pay income tax in UK. We pay property and car tax here but that's all.

 

[Graham376]

@graham ...
Then you go on and say
"totally disregarding/ignoring rules, is another matter."
So that's not bending the rules , give me a break .

Have you been on the pop? Read the posts again, that was a comment by syvictoria which I quoted and neither he nor I are suggesting people should break the rules!

 

[syvictoria]

What are you on about? Read my post again, I have never suggested people ignore the 183 day rule.

+1!

 

[sailaboutvic]

What are you on about? Read my post again, I have never suggested people ignore the 183 day rule.

As for tax, no I don't file returns and neither does my wife who is a citizen. Contrary to the "rules" tax office said not to bother as we have no income here, we pay income tax in UK. We pay property and car tax here but that's all.

Graham please copy and post where I said you suggested people should ingnore the rules .

This is what you posted .
" agree with syvictoria's statement - If a country allows and regulates for dual residency, then obtaining residency cannot possibly be consider 'bending' the rules. Not meeting mandatory minimum requirements, or totally disregarding/ignoring rules, is another matter"
How can you say that then go on and say ( totally disregarding/ignoring rules, is another matter)
It's all bending the rules how ever way you look at it .

 

[sailaboutvic]

No I'm not on the pop but started to wonder if others are , you agree to his statement .

 

[sailaboutvic]

Sorry to keep on Graham I'm still waiting , or maybe your parrot friend like to on your behalf.

 

[syvictoria]

Gosh sailaboutvic! Let me try to defend my previous statement, which I believe Graham376 agrees with:

If a country allows and regulates for dual residency, then obtaining residency cannot possibly be consider 'bending' the rules.

If the country has said, yes, we accept dual residency, then that is what they mean. Therefore dual residency per se is legally permitted and obtaining it is not bending the rules.

Not meeting mandatory minimum requirements, or totally disregarding/ignoring rules, is another matter"

If said country, for example, also requires the resident to be resident for a minimum of 180 days, and said resident is only resident for 120 days, they are disregarding the rules and they are therefore 'bending' the rules to suit their situation. We all agree that this is wrong.

And who is the parrot friend? Let's keep things civil, shall we?

 

[Graham376]

If it helps this was the advice I received from a solicitor when I was thinking of getting residency in Spain

Obvious difference there, Spain gives renewable two years temporary residence whereas Portugal gives five which should then be converted to permanent. My temporary residence had expired some years before I took out permanent, which had to be done at Immigration Dept. (SEF), not at local level. They need convincing/proof of settlement which those who are just dodging the system will find it hard to provide, particularly with future movements being tracked in Schengen database.

 

[Graham376]

Sorry to keep on Graham I'm still waiting , or maybe your parrot friend like to on your behalf.

Using dual residence rules is acceptable, whereas breaking rules isn't - is that acceptable?

 

[goeasy123]

Hi all, after 20 years of planning/dreaming following our first foray into med sailing covid curtailment of my career gives us an opportunity to push off. In 2018 we bought our boat and spent the last 2 summers aboard in the Ionian getting used to the boat in familiar waters, but now looking to stay on board permanently and go further afield. Of course when we started our planning all those years ago Brexit wasn’t even a possibility.

So now with the 90/180 restrictions in much of the Med we’re starting to think of other options as we will be looking to spend the first few winters in the Med before hopefully heading West. In 2019 with Brexit around the corner we obtained the beige temporary residence cards which we hoped would at least give us the option of wintering in Greece, however with the requirement to now convert that to biometric it looks unlikely that we will be ab;le to without a 12 month marina contract as we laid up ashore in Preveza for the last 2 winters expecting to go back to work which hasn’t happened.

To finally get to the point, some of our non Schengen options such as Turkey also have 90/180 limits making it very difficult to spend a winter there so I am here asking for suggestions from the members of this forum who have already been there, done that. This is forward planning at the moment for a time when we can travel again!!

Many thanks

Chris

Chris, Before you make any decision bear in mind that the 90/180 day thing will evolve on a country by country basis. The Cruising Association has a program working with local interested parties (government, trade bodies and businesses) in countries strategically important to cruiser. They have already made progress in your geographies of interest.

 

[Crisby]

Chris, Before you make any decision bear in mind that the 90/180 day thing will evolve on a country by country basis. The Cruising Association has a program working with local interested parties (government, trade bodies and businesses) in countries strategically important to cruiser. They have already made progress in your geographies of interest.

Yes, I am following the CAs efforts with interest, Chris Robb may never have to buy a drink again in certain areas if he is successful

It will be a huge step in the right direction for summer cruisers but not so much for full time liveaboards within Schengen hence my search for suggestions outside of Schengen for wintering.

All input is greatly appreciated as we look to make the leap to full time liveaboards.

Chris

 

[sailaboutvic]

Using dual residence rules is acceptable, whereas breaking rules isn't - is that acceptable?

I never said using dual residence wasn't acceptable maybe you like to also copy and paste where I said that too.
Or at the very less , sorry Vic I made a miss take

It be nice if you didn't keep saying I said stuff I didn't.
And no im not or use pot or ever have.

What I said was part of residency in most EU country , Spain,Malta,Greece, Italy and at a guess I would say Portugal too And knowing how tough France are there too.
residency insist people have to live in that country for a min 183 days the main reason is so that country may be able to claim tax of the said resident.
if people accept that as part of the residency then break their terms of the residency they are bending the rules of their residence, there no argument, what ever you or Sy says .
There are bending the rules or should I say their are breaking the law of that country .

Dual tax rule between different country's are something else , the country that I know for a fact that says if you live in that country for more then 183 days ( Malta Greece and Italy you have to let their revenue know which mean filling in a tax return , IT DOESNT means you will have to pay tax in that country ,
you may be told after you notify them that you don't have to fill in a tax returas just (as what yourself have been told , ) but you still have to let them know.

I haven't said nothing about France because I have no experience about residency in France but some years back I was looking at buying property in France I had to get a tax member before hand ,


My experience isn't from Googling , its from making enquiries myself before jumping into applying for residency, because of my tax commitment in the UK it would not be to my advance to have residency in another country, I would end up paying tax in both countries at a higher rate.

People go on and on how law abiding they are and ready to shout down anyone who may suggests anything that not quite right ,
these are the same people who will take out residency in country's and not abide by the rules,
the same people who uses UK family address to keep a foot hold in the uk , so they still have NHS and doctor treatment if needed,
The same people who not told they bank they are residency in another country so they account are not closed,
These people dont see themselves as doing anything wrong ,
OFCORUSE there think they arnt doing anything wrong but their are the first to shout at others .

 

[goeasy123]

Yes, I am following the CAs efforts with interest, Chris Robb may never have to buy a drink again in certain areas if he is successful

It will be a huge step in the right direction for summer cruisers but not so much for full time liveaboards within Schengen hence my search for suggestions outside of Schengen for wintering.

All input is greatly appreciated as we look to make the leap to full time liveaboards.

Chris

I wouldn't bet on liveaboards' interests not being addressed.... what with lawyers engaged with the EC. But probably in the longer term.

Best of luck!!

 

[differentroads]

What's the 180 day limit on boats? EU VAT paid boats have no time limit but unpaid are limited to 18 months. Presumably, now being resident you had to matriculate your boat anyway?

As for other countries, each has their own rules which vary in many ways.

Oh yeah. My bad. Sorry to add confusion about the boat/180 days ?☺
Haven't had to deal with matriculation tax etc yet. But expect to have to sometime this year. Also that I might not be resident in one place during my stay in Spain and Spanish regions vary, never mind other countries. It gets complicated quite quickly when ones home is mobile.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Oh yeah. My bad. Sorry to add confusion about the boat/180 days ?☺
Haven't had to deal with matriculation tax etc yet. But expect to have to sometime this year. Also that I might not be resident in one place during my stay in Spain and Spanish regions vary, never mind other countries. It gets complicated quite quickly when ones home is mobile.

Spain rules do varies from region to region , in 2009 when wintering in Aimarimar every non Spanish boat had their photo taken by the official two boats one was a brits got there boat impounded for non paying of import tax , if you look back at the time there was a posting here for someone who was screaming he been done because he stay longer then 6 months in Spain and now they wanted import tax , what he didn't say was he was running a business from his boat and also been in Spain in the same marina for some years , as it happen he still there now so I heard .

Some thing that should be mentioned, being part of the EU didn't allow you to stay in one EU country for more then three months without letting them know ,
its always been like that, it just very few bothered to implement the rule.
Probably impossible to catch people unless they stayed in the same marina year in and year out .

 

[sailaboutvic]

@ Chisby
Chris just had a conversation which maybe interesting for you. Last year people where getting yearly visa for Italy, but I tho they stopped them now we left , maybe I just got confused because what people been posting on ybw .
anyway just found out
They still doing them , one guy here just got his,
You need a marina berth address, 2500 euros PM income or a total of that amount yearly saving , if you married it another 20% for you wife .
And you have to have an interview at the embassy tho some had these at local government office .
Another couple are about to apply for these , if I hear anymore info I PM you .
Save getting conflict info from people here .

 

[miyagimoon]

Try looking at Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. Karpas Gate is the only marina and they do appear to have some very good deals.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Try looking at Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. Karpas Gate is the only marina and they do appear to have some very good deals.

your not back in Thailand ?

 

[syvictoria]

@ Chisby
Chris just had a conversation which maybe interesting for you. Last year people where getting yearly visa for Italy, but I tho they stopped them now we left , maybe I just got confused because what people been posting on ybw .
anyway just found out
They still doing them , one guy here just got his,
You need a marina berth address, 2500 euros PM income or a total of that amount yearly saving , if you married it another 20% for you wife .
And you have to have an interview at the embassy tho some had these at local government office .
Another couple are about to apply for these , if I hear anymore info I PM you .
Save getting conflict info from people here .

sailaboutvic, that's interesting about the Italian visa, as not much has been said here about Italy. It would be good if you're willing to share any updates publicly here too.

 

[Hooligan]

Always fancied a winter in Marina di Ragusa but no chance now as we would have to leave mid winter to go to somewhere non Schengen for 90 days. Thanks anyway for the suggestion.

Chris

I believe that the Italians are offering extremely competitive incentives for people who want to move to Italy, especially in the South. It would be worth looking into this if you did indeed fancy a spell down there as i believe you could get 5 year residency and max tax rate of 10% pa.