Lightwave395
Well-Known Member
I've got one of those, whether or not it's 'official' I neither know or care a greatdeal but it works and seems fine to me
Just looked at cost of navionics + cards, wtf! are they insane?
- Thread starter steve yates
- Start date
dunedin
Well-Known Member
As far as I am aware there isn’t an issue of “you own nothing” with Navionics plotter cards. The one off price includes a year free updates - and I always make a diary note to update a few days before this expires. But you can continue to use the charts as long as you want if don’t want updates. Mine are now in month 13 so out of licence, but no issue.
The update costs about half the new price. We tend to update every 2 years so about £60 per annum for full UK charts which isn’t bad, and never more than 12 months (and a day or so) out of date.
There is only one (primary) source for the original chart data - the UKHO and other official country HOs. So if the Orca charts are to be safe to use, they need to be paying the same fees to UKHO etc (currently raster seems to be cheaper). So perhaps they are loss leading on the chart costs, or not keeping up to date. Neither would be a sustainable model.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Pretty bizarre approach by Garmin. I wonder why they need different versions of the cards?
And branding wise sounds a mess - as Navionics is owned by Garmin so there is only Garmin Navionics. Two incompatible cards with near identical names is a major own goal.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
You are right that the US NAOO (and Norway) have a policy of issuing data FoC.
But the EU law would not help with UK chart costs, even if the EU law were applied here. UKHO is, as far as I know, required to be fully self funding from chart sales. Hence the tax payer / citizens have not already paid for its creation. (There may be a tiny element re the CHP sponsored by MCA but it is a detail.)
The most expensive chart data in Europe currently seems to be for Denmark, which is in the EU, and much more expensive than UK - hence some odd chart sales boundaries.
And medium term I expect a lot of pressure to increase costs of chart data to leisure craft, sadly.
toothless
Well-Known Member
It is mad that you can get the android motorbike navigator unit, opencpn and a set of UK charts from o-charts for less than a chart card from navionics - perhaps even 50% less. how on earth they get away with it astonishes me. i suspect this industry is ripe for a cheap challenger to tear it all up - like the chinese diesel heaters have with eberspachers
steve yates
Well-Known Member
Slight correction, my model is a uhd2 7cv, not a 7sv, it just came in a 7sv box 
Makes no difference to this topic but does when looking at connecting to a SH gx2400 vhf to show ais targets, as its n2k only.
Makes no difference to this topic but does when looking at connecting to a SH gx2400 vhf to show ais targets, as its n2k only.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
They are usually 'end of subscription' cards .... and I use them instead of stomping up for new ...
I have Navionics Boating subscription on my Phone and Tablet .... to make sure I'm not sailing into danger !! Total cost for card and Tablet sub ... about 100 quid initially ... then about 45 quid a year for the tablet sub.
So far I have not had any problems or reason to doubt my 'cheap' cards. Some say they are 'cloned' cards ... but both cards I have received had original Navionics labels on ... but of course you cannot register to receive updates.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
Sorry to disagree ... but there old DOS programs that DO WRITE exact full card ID copies .... incl the Digital Secure ID ...
Not only that but for a long time Garmin Unlocker has been out there ...
Refueler
Well-Known Member
Thats much more like it! Thanks Paul, I’ll get those. I was looking on garmins site and iit kept those well hidden from me, they don’t appear until page 3, very misleading if you are looking for uk charts.
I also see they do the entire baltic, and the entire west coast of europe and western med as one large chart area too. So my blood pressure is dropping
Mind you, c-maps website was even worse, I had to tell it where I was and a radius, not much use if I want to see their chart coverage of the med etc.
And then there was raymarine lightning charts…. Western coast of europe and the uk all for £99, what a difference!
Denmark is not included in the Baltic large chart ... I know as I sail Baltic .... you need to pay extra to get it included.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a politician’s answer. The reason it needs to self fund is because we set it up that way. That could change very easily, same for OS.
The public have paid for everything created by both organisations, the self funding aspect is recent but the data is not.
Things like this hold the UK back. Free mapping and chart data enables considerable value to be created in many industries.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Navionics cards are for plotters which used them prior to Garmins takeover. Garmin Navionics are only for Garmin plotters, they contain extra features that won't work with other manufacturers plotters.
Momac
Well-Known Member
Needing a new chart presumably depends where you go boating.
One area I go changes so frequently there is no electronic chart . You have to get the latest navigation marks update immediately before travel and enter it in your mfd and / or update a paper chart. And one harbour entrance there have been great changes and it would be unwise to follow any electronic chart but best to look at the harbour website for any new advice. But the rest of the area is insignificantly changed. My 10 year old navionics chart is fine. Okay there are some extra wind turbines but that's not an issue.
So really one of the £56 charts would be a significant upgrade for me and would be fine for another decade. On the other hand £230 or so for the 28XG genuine chart doesn't seem excessive.
One area I go changes so frequently there is no electronic chart . You have to get the latest navigation marks update immediately before travel and enter it in your mfd and / or update a paper chart. And one harbour entrance there have been great changes and it would be unwise to follow any electronic chart but best to look at the harbour website for any new advice. But the rest of the area is insignificantly changed. My 10 year old navionics chart is fine. Okay there are some extra wind turbines but that's not an issue.
So really one of the £56 charts would be a significant upgrade for me and would be fine for another decade. On the other hand £230 or so for the 28XG genuine chart doesn't seem excessive.
Irish Rover
Well-Known Member
The charts on my Axioms are out of date since 2019. I would have updated them when I bought the boat in 2024 but you can't buy updates if they're more than 5 years old. I would have had to order a physical card and wait for delivery which wasn't an option as I was in Croatia and heading for Türkiye. I have a mobile Navionics sub and I can transfer routes, waypoints etc from my phone to the Axioms. The 2019 charts on the mfd's also still have full functionality including autorouting. The only thing lacking is the updates, and that's not an issue when I cross reference to the mobile app.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
I don't believe there is any such thing. For one thing, there is no subscription with Garmin charts, you buy the card and it's yours. You get free updates for the first year of ownership and at the end of the year you can optionally renew it for half price and get another year of free updates. If you don't pay to update it you keep using it, it does not expire and you can pay the half price deal for a full update at any time. Mine is currently 4 years old, still works and i can still update it, if i want.
I'll bet good money the Ebay ones are pirate copies, which is why you cannot update them because you cannot register them with Garmin.
If they work, which i dare say they will, that's not a problem, as long as you're happy with pirate charts.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Oh dear, that's the very basic entry level model Steve. It does not come with charts, does not support NMEA 0183 or NMEA 2000 and cannot display AIS.Slight correction, my model is a uhd2 7cv, not a 7sv, it just came in a 7sv box
Makes no difference to this topic but does when looking at connecting to a SH gx2400 vhf to show ais targets, as its n2k only.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
Definitely is. I have three of them. When they expire you can choose to buy an update card (new physical card) and activate with the old card. You then choose region (doesn’t have to be the same) and the new card downloads new charts. Old card still works but cannot update again or activate further cards.
This is a Navionics feature, probably not on the Garmin side.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
I think Garmin ones must be different then. Maybe i'll update mine one day and find out for sure.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
Easy way to tell is if they sell blank “update cards” although with Active Captain I don’t see why they would as subscriptions are already a thing and you can use multiple cards anyway.
Whaup367
Well-Known Member
I may have missed it being mentioned earlier(?) but maybe worth a reminder that your RYA membership includes a 10%-15% discount on Navionics cards.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Mine was a factual answer based upon the actual status of UKHo and its funding. I believe you are incorrect to say “the public have paid for everything” created by UKHO - unless you mean long dead who poerhaps funded the original rowing boat surveys.
Yes the government could change the UKHO away from its self funding status, but that seems unlikely as long as it can self fund from its sales of charts (primarily ENCs) and chart data.