Med Winter Liveaboard Suggestions Please
- Thread starter Crisby
- Start date
RupertW
Well-Known Member
I can’t see how you would be allowed in Granada for more than 90/180 without becoming a Spanish resident but Marina de Este is a lovely place to stay with a big town a short taxi ride away.
Crisby
Well-Known Member
Grenada, not Granada! Not in the med I know but might have to look further afield, maybe next year! Having said that Granada is lovely but not feasible for us.
Chris
RupertW
Well-Known Member
Gotcha - beautiful island with some great bays at the southern end.
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
Chris up to now Malta hasn't been interested in stamping passport or how long a non EU cruisers stay on the islands , if that changes in time to come it's any body guess , so you could think about a winter there.
Another option is Sicily for 90 days and then pick a nice sailing 24 hours which I sound as long as you happy to wait and sail to Tunisia for a while .
Another option is Sicily for 90 days and then pick a nice sailing 24 hours which I sound as long as you happy to wait and sail to Tunisia for a while .
differentroads
Well-Known Member
I've picked Spain as my base to cruise the Western Med and got temporary residency (5 years) late last year. My marina was happy to confirm to the authorities that I was living there on my boat and three months of mooring fees and electricity bills were accepted as evidence. I also had to show evidence of 6,000€ p.a. income, 6,000€ savings and health insurance - UK citizens on state pension get a pass on the latter, I believe.
This takes the 90 days Schengen problem out of the equation for wintering Spain but I'll be stuck with the 90 day limit in Italy and France when I head there. Similar residency is available in the other Schengen countries. It also makes me eligible for the covid vaccination out here.
180 days limit on the boat is not such a big deal if you can get to Morocco, Tunisia, Croatia, Turkey, Israel or Cyprus for even an overnight stay.
Being a Spanish resident brings potential tax complications, both personal income and assets and for the boat. I imagine its the same in other EU countries.
This takes the 90 days Schengen problem out of the equation for wintering Spain but I'll be stuck with the 90 day limit in Italy and France when I head there. Similar residency is available in the other Schengen countries. It also makes me eligible for the covid vaccination out here.
180 days limit on the boat is not such a big deal if you can get to Morocco, Tunisia, Croatia, Turkey, Israel or Cyprus for even an overnight stay.
Being a Spanish resident brings potential tax complications, both personal income and assets and for the boat. I imagine its the same in other EU countries.
Crisby
Well-Known Member
We have taken Greek temporary residency (beige card) 2 years ago with our address as Vlicho Bay but this year post Brexit Greece is changing to biometric cards for TCN residents and at the moment it looks uncertain that the authorities will accept boats as a home, even with a marina contract for tax reasons. Apparently if you live in a boat, R/V, etc., you are considered homeless, obviously it is still early days and people are waiting to see what happens, waiting for someone else to try it first.
The 2 systems are slightly different as the beige temporary residence card was really just registration of your stay in Greece as an EU national for more than 90 days (with rights now maintained under the withdrawal agreement) whereas the biometric requires a minimum stay in the country of 6 months each year therefore making you a tax resident. As cruisers we have no wish to be tied to one country however beautiful it might be.Having said that it might be a short term solution for us as there is no legal requirement to change to biometric but it will make life harder if we need to do anything official such as buying a car ( no desire for that at the mo)
I’m not sure about the reference to leaving for one day after 180 days as I didn’t think that was how it works but I haven’t looked at Spain so maybe that is different there.
Overall I think we will be either stuck in Greece for a year or 2 with the occasional trip elsewhere to explore or I quite fancy trying Morocco for somewhere new.
Thanks for all the suggestions,
Chris.
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
Are we getting the one day out if the EU confused with boats that are NOT vat paid , and that at less one day in every 18 months not 180 days .
I think in time there is going to be some kind of a tax problem with tho who have residency, it seen already you have to be in a country for at less 183 days to qualify which brings you into their tax bracket.
It all seen easy before we left to get residency in most EU country, wonder why , will they want some thing in return like taxes .
I think in time there is going to be some kind of a tax problem with tho who have residency, it seen already you have to be in a country for at less 183 days to qualify which brings you into their tax bracket.
It all seen easy before we left to get residency in most EU country, wonder why , will they want some thing in return like taxes .
Crisby
Well-Known Member
Yes, I’m thinking that is related to vat but just slightly wrong.
The good thing with the beige residency card in Greece was that it didn’t put you in the tax system although I do understand the reasons for change and if we wanted to live there permanently I would have no problem being in the tax system.
Chris
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
In one way you can't blame countries to want taxs from their residence, the whole idea of residency is for people who want to live in that country it was never mean for us Brits to find away around the 90/180 day rules (Chris not pointing any fingers at anyone here ) .
Portugal, Greece ,Spain all wanted Brits to stay , they want our money after all and many brits have houses in many EU country's and I guess they wanted to make it easy for them to use their first or second homes , it was never meant for cruisers to spend more the 90 days before heading off or six month before returning back to live in the UK.
Everyone I spoken to who got residency the residency come with a condition that you have to stay for at less 183 days and with that your need to fill in a tax return , if you pay tax or not is a different thing .
Many here have had a go at me for finding my own way around the 90/180 rule but really that all others are trying to do with residency we all bending the rules to fit our situation.
I very much hope I am wrong for everyone sake but the day may come when people who take on It residency may have opened a can of worms for them selfs .
Portugal, Greece ,Spain all wanted Brits to stay , they want our money after all and many brits have houses in many EU country's and I guess they wanted to make it easy for them to use their first or second homes , it was never meant for cruisers to spend more the 90 days before heading off or six month before returning back to live in the UK.
Everyone I spoken to who got residency the residency come with a condition that you have to stay for at less 183 days and with that your need to fill in a tax return , if you pay tax or not is a different thing .
Many here have had a go at me for finding my own way around the 90/180 rule but really that all others are trying to do with residency we all bending the rules to fit our situation.
I very much hope I am wrong for everyone sake but the day may come when people who take on It residency may have opened a can of worms for them selfs .
syvictoria
Well-Known Member
If a country allows and regulates for dual residency, then obtaining residency cannot possibly be consider 'bending' the rules. Not meeting mandatory minimum requirements, or totally disregarding/ignoring rules, is another matter.
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
You seen to want it both way , residency come in most countries if not all with a condition that people stay a min of 183 days ,
It also come with tax laws that say if you stay 183 days you have to fill in a tax return , how many are doing that I wonder .
there not many who have any intention at staying that long , other then people who really looking to live in that country ,
most are just looking at a way to use that country as a jump off point or use it for 5 months before returning back home,
so sorry to say yes that is bending the rules , like it or not . They not standing by what they sign up for and people can word it what every way they like .
im in no doubts there going to be a lot more to residency in time to come.
People want to shout about obeying the rules , then do so and stop posting and moaning it's 90 days then get out , that's obeying the rules and not breaking any laws .
Crisby
Well-Known Member
Like I say Vic, I have no problem with being in the tax system if we were to move to Greece permanently, its only right to contribute but at the moment the indications are that a boat will not be allowed as a home so it would not be possible even if we wanted to which we don’t.
I completely agree about the can of worms, such as luxury tax on boats, possible requirement to change your boats flag, etc.
As doom-bug has killed my career a few years before we would have been ready to retire we are trying to find a way to seize an opportunity that half exists to move onto the boat full time and so looking at all of our options however far ‘out of the box’ they might be.
You are lucky that we are not moored near you at the moment as we would be permanently on the pontoon picking your brains for ideas, its the wealth of experience from the cruisers on this forum that helps to keep us on track.
Chris
Graham376
Well-Known Member
I agree with syvictoria's statement - If a country allows and regulates for dual residency, then obtaining residency cannot possibly be consider 'bending' the rules. Not meeting mandatory minimum requirements, or totally disregarding/ignoring rules, is another matter.
OTOH, I can see where you're coming from in that many, if not most people, ARE bending the rules and just using residence as a dodge to gain extra time in Schengen but, looking ahead, they will be disappointed. By not spending 183 days p.a. in country and not being able to convince authorities they're settled, permanent status at end of the 5 years will be refused and as third country citizens they won't have automatic right to residence.
As for tax and other matters, that depends on whether individual countries have dual tax /dual residence arrangements with UK.
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
Graham where you coming from dual tax don't come into it , you still in most counrty have to fill in a tax return if your a resident in that country , you may not have to pay any tax because of the dual rules but you still have to fill it in .
By what you wrote in the pass I think you are one of the few who does .
And again people are bending the rules , it's clear one of the condition of residency in most country's is you live in that country for a min of 183 days , stop trying to say other wise .
I'm just waiting for the day someone wakes up to find a notices on their boat like what had happen here in Italy a few years ago and what happen quote a lot in Spain in different region when custom have issues tax mport demands because the owner was a resident.
By what you wrote in the pass I think you are one of the few who does .
And again people are bending the rules , it's clear one of the condition of residency in most country's is you live in that country for a min of 183 days , stop trying to say other wise .
I'm just waiting for the day someone wakes up to find a notices on their boat like what had happen here in Italy a few years ago and what happen quote a lot in Spain in different region when custom have issues tax mport demands because the owner was a resident.
Crisby
Well-Known Member
5 years in one place might be enough for some people but personally I wouldn’t sleep well at night if I felt I was doing something that might get me in trouble with the authorities, I generally lean towards ‘doing the right thing’ hence this thread.
Chris
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
Chris as I said my posting wasn't pointing fingers , you seen to be one of the very few who trying to stay within the rules and willing to do right thing,
everyone else including my self are just trying to find a way around the mess out fellow countrymen have put us in.
What I won't do is be dictated by people who have as much experience in cruising and how things are no more then I had 30 years ago ,
Unless I kick the bucket I will still be doing what I been doing many years from now while the so call internet goggles will still be posting and moaning .
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Graham376
Well-Known Member
What's the 180 day limit on boats? EU VAT paid boats have no time limit but unpaid are limited to 18 months. Presumably, now being resident you had to matriculate your boat anyway?
As for other countries, each has their own rules which vary in many ways.
jordanbasset
Well-Known Member
If it helps this was the advice I received from a solicitor when I was thinking of getting residency in Spain
'Good afternoon xxxx
My colleague Pippa has asked me to contact you.
I can see from your initial email that you are wanting to continue staying in Spain during the winter months.
If you are to apply for you residencia, you will then have to be here a minimum of 183 days as otherwise you will revoke your residencia and what with the high probability of passports going to get stamped, it will be easy to prove.
If you have any questions or queries, please do not hesitate to ask. If you would like a meeting via zoom or even a telephone consultation, we can arrange this.'
More on it here
Residence Permit Renewal: Make sure you spend at least 6 months in Spain!
'One of the most common causes of rejection by the Spanish authorities when it comes to renewing a residence permit is directly related to the failure of the applicant to comply with the minimum stay requirements that Spanish law dictate.
A temporary residence permit application allows a person to stay in Spain for more than 185 days per year during a maximum period of 2 years. These temporary residence permits can be renewed once 2 year period has passed, but only if you spend at least 185 days in Spain within each year, which is the minimum stay requirement set by Spanish law for temporary residence permits...
We cannot but emphasize the importance of this minimum stay to keep your residency status or be able to apply for a new one. As a matter of fact, it is one of the main reasons for a rejection in immigration applications. Some time ago, Spanish immigration officers would have a more relaxed attitude towards the actual compliance of this requirement. However, this is no longer the case, and they will thoroughly examine all the entry and exit stamps on your passport'
In the end never went through with it as I would not spend at least 6 months in Spain
'Good afternoon xxxx
My colleague Pippa has asked me to contact you.
I can see from your initial email that you are wanting to continue staying in Spain during the winter months.
If you are to apply for you residencia, you will then have to be here a minimum of 183 days as otherwise you will revoke your residencia and what with the high probability of passports going to get stamped, it will be easy to prove.
If you have any questions or queries, please do not hesitate to ask. If you would like a meeting via zoom or even a telephone consultation, we can arrange this.'
More on it here
Residence Permit Renewal: Make sure you spend at least 6 months in Spain!
'One of the most common causes of rejection by the Spanish authorities when it comes to renewing a residence permit is directly related to the failure of the applicant to comply with the minimum stay requirements that Spanish law dictate.
A temporary residence permit application allows a person to stay in Spain for more than 185 days per year during a maximum period of 2 years. These temporary residence permits can be renewed once 2 year period has passed, but only if you spend at least 185 days in Spain within each year, which is the minimum stay requirement set by Spanish law for temporary residence permits...
We cannot but emphasize the importance of this minimum stay to keep your residency status or be able to apply for a new one. As a matter of fact, it is one of the main reasons for a rejection in immigration applications. Some time ago, Spanish immigration officers would have a more relaxed attitude towards the actual compliance of this requirement. However, this is no longer the case, and they will thoroughly examine all the entry and exit stamps on your passport'
In the end never went through with it as I would not spend at least 6 months in Spain
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
@graham ...
Then you go on and say
"totally disregarding/ignoring rules, is another matter."
So that's not bending the rules , give me a break .
Then you go on and say
"totally disregarding/ignoring rules, is another matter."
So that's not bending the rules , give me a break .
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