Maximum draft, best location for stress-free East coast sailing?

[johnalison]

No. I did not contradict myself because stupid people not paying attention or doing their home work will invariably cock up
and the Deben Bar will catch these people out. I was just saying you see very few yachts cutting corners even on a rising spring tide. Check your chart Stour to the Orwell at Shotley. There is a two meter line that cuts very close to Shotley marina and Bloody Point but very few boats use it and take the long way round past Halfpenny Pier. Springs would give you 6 meters of water, on this short cut, but most yachts take the long route.

I have gone that way many times. Does that count?

 

[Daydream believer]

I have gone that way many times. Does that count?

So have I, but I ran aground. Does that count as well?

 

[PeterWright]

I haven't, as yet met anyone with a fin keel who leaves the channel or cuts across shoal water, even on springs or manages to anchor near shore. It is a matter of choice, but I know if I get things wrong I will sit upright for a few boring hours and not lay completely on my side terrified. I have seen many fins come to grief entering the Deben, the crew having to get off the boat onto the shingle and an inshore life boat standing off as the tide returns.

Your clearly not very observant then. Whole racing fleets, the vast majority of which are fin keeled, will stick to the shallow water over mudflats at the side of an estuary when tacking against wind and tide. When I look at the spiders' webs of tracks sailed on the plotter of our 6 foot draft fin keeled yacht, it always seems surprising how much we sail on the green bits which represent areas that dry at LAT.

Peter.

 

[shanemax]

Your clearly not very observant then. Whole racing fleets, the vast majority of which are fin keeled, will stick to the shallow water over mudflats at the side of an estuary when tacking against wind and tide. When I look at the spiders' webs of tracks sailed on the plotter of our 6 foot draft fin keeled yacht, it always seems surprising how much we sail on the green bits which represent areas that dry at LAT.

Peter.

Your one of those grossly annoying sailors who have to tack down an estuary/river making everyone else take avoiding action. Every time you tack you think you have the Colregs on your side so every one motoring or sailing slowly must give way . I always thought the col regs said when two vessels were in sight of each other etc......one is the stand on and should maintain their course and the other is the give way. If a sailing boat is continuously changing course, tacking every 3-4 minutes that makes a mockery of the rules. Go out to sea and practice tacking out there where you are not a nuisance to every other boat user.

 

[Daydream believer]

I haven't, as yet met any know if I get things wrong I will sit upright for a few boring hours and not lay completely on my side terrified. I have seen many fins come to grief entering the Deben, the crew having to get off the boat onto the shingle and an inshore life boat standing off as the tide returns.

Unless you are a MOBO or multihul sailor one would assume that you are a bilge keel sailor. as far as I am concerned they can be every bit as dangerous as a fin keel. I fact moreso
As an example
2 40ft yachts were aground in the lower sunk crossing. One with a very dodgy VHF & with its AIS transmitting MOB. My friend in a 29ft Bilge keel boat could see the radar mount and another item on the starn and assumed it was 2 people looking over the stern. Not having heard the VHF & not replying to my warnings he sailed over to help look for the non existent MOBs. He sailed on to the bank near the stranded yacht & because the waves were breaking away from him had no idea it was shallow.
The boat not only hit hard but tripped right over the 2 keels & was pinned at 90 degrees to the vertical. i could see this but could not get near them. Fortunately they managed to hold on & not get flung into the sea. After a short while a larger than normal wave fliped them back onto the 2 keels . This left them with damaged skeg & rudder. The Clacton RNLI attended all 3 boats. but my friend managed to make it to ramsgate
the point of this is that the boat could have been pushed further up the bank on its side & lost. The bilge keels not helping in any way at all.

I have seen bilge keelers dragged off the mud by the RNLI & damage done to the steering. This may not have been done to a fin which would have tipped over a bit & the keel slid along the mud.
In my early days when racing, or just cruising, I hit the mud very many times in my Stella. Only once (the first time) did I ever get so stuck that I could not get off until the tide changed.

 

[Daydream believer]

Your one of those grossly annoying sailors who have to tack down an estuary/river making everyone else take avoiding action. Every time you tack you think you have the Colregs on your side so every one motoring or sailing slowly must give way . I always thought the col regs said when two vessels were in sight of each other etc......one is the stand on and should maintain their course and the other is the give way. If a sailing boat is continuously changing course, tacking every 3-4 minutes that makes a mockery of the rules. Go out to sea and practice tacking out there where you are not a nuisance to every other boat user.

Normally a fleet of racing boat tacking inshore soon realise when a dithering old twat comes along & makes allowances for them. So I suggest that you should not worry yourself too much

 

[johnalison]

Your one of those grossly annoying sailors who have to tack down an estuary/river making everyone else take avoiding action. Every time you tack you think you have the Colregs on your side so every one motoring or sailing slowly must give way . I always thought the col regs said when two vessels were in sight of each other etc......one is the stand on and should maintain their course and the other is the give way. If a sailing boat is continuously changing course, tacking every 3-4 minutes that makes a mockery of the rules. Go out to sea and practice tacking out there where you are not a nuisance to every other boat user.

People have been tacking up and down rivers for centuries. All went well until someone invented engines that would allow people with no skills to go out on the water and express surprise when there are other boats out there subject to the vagaries of wind and tide. Boats don't tack because they enjoy getting in the way but because they have to, and their movements are almost entirely predictable, which is more than can be said for boats under power. If this is a mystery to you, then I would suggest that you hire a motor boat on the Broads and learn to negotiate shared waters safely, as I did as a child.

 

[Egret]

Bilge keels or centreboards more about where you can/want/afford to moor, how much you want to spend on moorings, places accessible to visit, simple to scrub, no worries about winter propping, and slip over the marina bar or the Rays'n, get into places at any state of tide - rather than absolute performance = and as the OP says - stress free - no worries. Keeping an eye on the chart and the echo sounder, shouldn't go aground. Boat bought from the Crouch had 3 instruments - all echo sounders.

 

[Daydream believer]

Bilge keels or centreboards more about where you can/want to moor, how much you want to spend on moorings, places accessible to visit, simple to scrub, no worries about winter propping, and slip over the marina bar or the Rays'n, get into places at any state of tide - rather than absolute performance = and as the OP says - stress free - no worries. Boat bought from the Crouch had 3 instruments - all echo sounders.

Stress free--- but needed 3 echo sounders--- Hmmm

 

[Egret]

No stress at all - especially with 3 echo sounders - one for the 'navigator' - whoever that is at the time - one as spare in case the main one goes wrong - and Harwich Live for the surges up and down.

It's the extra hour and a half of water depth on a falling tide that you gain with 3ft less draft - and an hour and a half earlier to get out over the marina bar - so 3 hours total on a tide - It makes the difference between whether a place is half tide access only - or more or less unlimited -

Depends on where you are and what you want to do - Deep fin keel wouldn't work at Manningtree - I do remember though the Burnham racing technique to pinch to windward in the shallow water with boat held uprightish to gain a few lengths to windward until touch bottom then roll tack - which you can't do with bilge keels - Often tacked again before the main channel if against the tide - so plenty of room for motor boats - don't recall many then.

 

[Sailing steve]

Your one of those grossly annoying sailors who have to tack down an estuary/river making everyone else take avoiding action. Every time you tack you think you have the Colregs on your side so every one motoring or sailing slowly must give way . I always thought the col regs said when two vessels were in sight of each other etc......one is the stand on and should maintain their course and the other is the give way. If a sailing boat is continuously changing course, tacking every 3-4 minutes that makes a mockery of the rules. Go out to sea and practice tacking out there where you are not a nuisance to every other boat user.

Dearie me...

 

[Daydream believer]

No stress at all - It's the extra hour and a half of water depth on a falling tide that you gain with 3ft less draft - and an hour an a half earlier to get out over the marina bar - so 3 hours total on a tide - It makes the difference whether a place is half tide plus access only - or more or less unlimited - I do remember though the Burnham racing technique to pinch in the shallow water with boat held uprightish to gain a few lengths to windward until touch bottom then roll tack, and you can't do that with bilge keels,

But you need 3 echo sounders to work out tide height over the bar, because you are so confident of your calculations.
On the east coast there are so few ports where I am actually restricted by more than a couple of hours even by my 1.800 draft that I soon gain the time in sailing against the bilge keeler. Especially in a windy upwind chop

 

[Puffin10032]

Stress free--- but needed 3 echo sounders--- Hmmm

Echo sounders are a bit like money. You can never have too many

 

[xyachtdave]

I have him on ignore, please stop quoting him!

 

[Lucky Duck]

But you need 3 echo sounders to work out tide height over the bar, because you are so confident of your calculations.
On the east coast there are so few ports where I am actually restricted by more than a couple of hours even by my 1.800 draft that I soon gain the time in sailing against the bilge keeler. Especially in a windy upwind chop

Back when we had a twin keel boat we used to go up places like Woodbridge on an evening tide and then come back down in the morning, now with a draft of almost two meters we can’t readily dry out and there isn’t enough water over the cill at the tide mill on neap tides.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Your one of those grossly annoying sailors who have to tack down an estuary/river making everyone else take avoiding action. Every time you tack you think you have the Colregs on your side so every one motoring or sailing slowly must give way . I always thought the col regs said when two vessels were in sight of each other etc......one is the stand on and should maintain their course and the other is the give way. If a sailing boat is continuously changing course, tacking every 3-4 minutes that makes a mockery of the rules. Go out to sea and practice tacking out there where you are not a nuisance to every other boat user.

What an obnoxious............

This forum is usually for better people than you.

 

[PeterWright]

Your one of those grossly annoying sailors who have to tack down an estuary/river making everyone else take avoiding action. Every time you tack you think you have the Colregs on your side so every one motoring or sailing slowly must give way . I always thought the col regs said when two vessels were in sight of each other etc......one is the stand on and should maintain their course and the other is the give way. If a sailing boat is continuously changing course, tacking every 3-4 minutes that makes a mockery of the rules. Go out to sea and practice tacking out there where you are not a nuisance to every other boat user.

I'm a sailor who likes to sail his boat and I do not have control of the wind direction so if it's against me I have to tack. In my youth I occasionally worked on trading sailing barges with no auxiliary engine and had to tack to windward. Yes, I rely on the COLREGS as the prime means of avoiding collisions with other vessels - in my view the safest way. If you prefer not to use the COLREGS, I hope we don't meet at sea. The COLREGS do not require a vessel sailing slowly to give way.

 

[Malish]

For a thread about stress-free sailing .... this thread is becoming a little stressful

 

[shanemax]

I am still of the opinion that boats continually tacking (at speed and at the last moment) are a bloody nuisance , they get as far as Harwich harbour docks and turn around and go back annoying more people on the way back. Perhaps their sailing skills or confidence don't allow them to go out to sea where they can really test their boats. Plus I have never seen a bilge keeler being dragged off the mud by a lifeboat.

 

[Tradewinds]

I am still of the opinion that boats continually tacking (at speed and at the last moment) are a bloody nuisance , they get as far as Harwich harbour docks and turn around and go back annoying more people on the way back. Perhaps their sailing skills or confidence don't allow them to go out to sea where they can really test their boats. Plus I have never seen a bilge keeler being dragged off the mud by a lifeboat.

That's a big chip on your shoulder you've got . . .