mark of the course

[Birdseye]

If the course is a to b to c and it is possible to sail from a direct to c and pass b on the right side but some distance away, what is the rule about a " Mark of the course"

How do you insert marks into the course in such a way as to prevent some of the fleet sailing across shallow water that others cant use?

Perhaps should explain that we are talking round the cans races rather than laid courses.

 

[ckris]

If the course is a to b to c and it is possible to sail from a direct to c and pass b on the right side but some distance away, what is the rule about a " Mark of the course"

How do you insert marks into the course in such a way as to prevent some of the fleet sailing across shallow water that others cant use?

Perhaps should explain that we are talking round the cans races rather than laid courses.

How the mark is described in the course/SIs matters.

If b is a passing mark (eg pass to port) then can leave on the required side any distance away. If b is a rounding mark then a string representing the boats track pulled tight must touch the mark - meaning you may have to loop the mark. See RRS 28.2.

A good race committee will not usually specify a course that means looping a mark more than 180 degrees, instead will give a course leaving the mark to the other side (eg round to starboard rather than port) so that it is more obvious the intention is to go to mark b.

 

[flaming]

As said above, it's the string rule. Imagine that as you sail you are paying out a ball of string. After the race you are required to pull that string tight, and in doing so it must touch all marks that are rounding marks, and pass on the correct side (but not necessarily touch) all marks that are passing marks.

Unless specified all marks are rounding marks. So unless your SIs / course description change that then sailing from A to C in the way you describe does not satisfy the string rule. In that case you would need to sail to B, loop it leaving it on the side specified, and then carry on. All whilst swearing at the course setter.....

 

[Chiara’s slave]

As said above, it's the string rule. Imagine that as you sail you are paying out a ball of string. After the race you are required to pull that string tight, and in doing so it must touch all marks that are rounding marks, and pass on the correct side (but not necessarily touch) all marks that are passing marks.

Unless specified all marks are rounding marks. So unless your SIs / course description change that then sailing from A to C in the way you describe does not satisfy the string rule. In that case you would need to sail to B, loop it leaving it on the side specified, and then carry on. All whilst swearing at the course setter.....

This. I have only last year sought redress from a race committee, and due to knobbling of the protest committee, got my redress on appeal to the RYA. Our sailing instructions have now been clarified. Which was the aim of the protest/redress. I have yet to get the club to reform it’s protest process

 

[penfold]

Setting a course that requires looping a mark is insane unless you're a boatbuilder or have short-sold insurance company shares; that's worth protesting the race committee on its own for safety grounds. If mark B is displaced to port of a line betwixt A and C it should be rounded to starboard and vice versa.

 

[Daydream believer]

Many years ago in the long distant past (50 yrs+??) a dinghy won a race because the race committe had a leg running down the river Crouch & intended the race to take a leg up the river Roach, However, it said in the instruction - "Roach" to port. Intending the buoy in the river to be rounded. The dinghy just sailed straight down the river Crouch passing Roach to port but not actually rounding it.
I seem to recall that (I stand to be corrected by those with better memories) It created quite a stir & the protest went to the RYA, wherein they issued ammended,standard sailing instruction clauses, for race commitees to use, which clarified the difference between rounding & passing.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Many years ago in the long distant past (50 yrs+??) a dinghy won a race because the race committe had a leg running down the river Crouch & intended the race to take a leg up the river Roach, However, it said in the instruction - "Roach" to port. Intending the buoy in the river to be rounded. The dinghy just sailed straight down the river Crouch passing Roach to port but not actually rounding it.
It created quite a stir & the protest went to the RYA, wherein they issued ammended,standard sailing instruction clauses, for race commitees to use, which clarified the difference between rounding & passing.

They did indeed. The Royal Solent took a long time to get the message.

 

[flaming]

Setting a course that requires looping a mark is insane unless you're a boatbuilder or have short-sold insurance company shares; that's worth protesting the race committee on its own for safety grounds. If mark B is displaced to port of a line betwixt A and C it should be rounded to starboard and vice versa.

Not necessarily... Depends on why the race officer wants the mark in the course, does he want the fleet to go there, or does he not want them to go the other side of it? A classic example is the frequent use of Snowden as a passing mark by races that start or finish on one of the Cowes fixed lines. The committee don't want you to go to Snowden, but they put it in as a passing mark to ensure that if you're going upwind on that leg you aren't short tacking up the line of moored boats off Cowes.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

That is obviously the correct use of a passing mark. Our little contretemps was caused by our sailing instructions saying ‘all marks must be rounded, and a failure of the course to pass the string test. The lasers were racing inshore, the mark was fully intended as a passing mark to keep the keelboats away from the lasers. We took it as such, then one of the other boats looped it after a pointed radio transmission. ‘repeat the course, no. 2 to be rounded to starboard?’ We have a bit of a target on our backs, so though we’d already passed it by a leg and a bit, we unwound ourselves, rounded it to stbd, chased down the boats that got past us and got back, God knows how, to 2nd, behind the smartarse. I’m convinced to this day that if we had not rounded it, we’d have been DNF for not sailing the course. The smartarse protested the boats that passed the mark. The PRO told the protest committee to throw it out. We protested, they threw that out, but we appealed and won. The other boats were given redress for the incompetence of the race committee. We now have passing marks in the SIs.

The OP should check the wording in the SIs very carefully. The Royal Solent cannot be the only club to have got stuck in the mud.

 

[flaming]

The PRO told the protest committee to throw it out.

PRO needs to give his head a wobble. Throwing out or not a protest is none of his business.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

PRO needs to give his head a wobble. Throwing out or not a protest is none of his business.

100%. He’s taken huge exception to the protest and the appeal, and we now race with an even bigger target on our backs. Unexpected OCS, punishing handicaps given where possible, etc. His reign is limited though, There have been a few high profile mistakes too, you might know of one.

 

[flaming]

100%. He’s taken huge exception to the protest and the appeal, and we now race with an even bigger target on our backs. Unexpected OCS, punishing handicaps given where possible, etc. His reign is limited though, There have been a few high profile mistakes too, you might know of one.

I can guess....

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I can guess....

Nearly Taittinger time again. They won’t be using the gun, it’s safe to come.

 

[flaming]

Ha! Too logistically challenging for us. Can't accommodate the crew on board. Shame as it's a great event.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Ha! Too logistically challenging for us. Can't accommodate the crew on board. Shame as it's a great event.

Yes, accomodation in walking distance is challenging. There are now a couple of floating lodges in Yarmouth Harbour, but I have yet to see them used. I am 4 miles away, I can drive, but even with 3 different car park passes, it’s touch and go. I usually cycle.

 

[Birdseye]

Thanks for the answer - I have learned something.

 

[The Q]

As we sail mostly on a river the standing instruction is a passing mark, almost all are marks are a 180 anyway, so including a rounding mark would require a 360, which really doesn't bear thinking about in a narrow River.

Even the broad isn't that big, so it's still passing marks, so when the odd race officer gets it wrong. The majority just race in by... There is always someone who'll go and try to round the buoy..

 

[Daydream believer]

As we sail mostly on a river the standing instruction is a passing mark, almost all are marks are a 180 anyway, so including a rounding mark would require a 360, which really doesn't bear thinking about in a narrow River.

Even the broad isn't that big, so it's still passing marks, so when the odd race officer gets it wrong. The majority just race in by... There is always someone who'll go and try to round the buoy..

So, if you do not round any marks, how do you know when to turn round & go home? Or is it a case of, go so far until someone decides how long is it going to take to get back before the bar closes?

 

[The Q]

So, if you do not round any marks, how do you know when to turn round & go home? Or is it a case of, go so far until someone decides how long is it going to take to get back before the bar closes?

Because the last buoy of the course, is always down river (behind) the finishing line , all others, are up River.
The standard buoys run 5 behind the line, X, 1, 2, 3, 4 the furthest a mile and a half upriver. ( Optional buoy Y a further half mile up river if the big sailing cruisers are out)

So a course might be 4, X, 4, 5. Using the string method, you pass each buoy in turn..the fact that to pass it , it's a 180 degree rounding, makes no difference, it's still a passing mark.
Should a shortened course be needed, the buzzer goes at Buoy X which you pass on the correct side on the way to the finish line.

Had the race officer set the course 4, X, 1, 4, 5, as a passing mark race you'd just just sail past 1 on the correct side
Had the SIs insisted it was a rounding mark race you'd have to do a 360 round buoy 1, on the way to 4. Difficult in a fleet of 10 20ft boats on a river that's 120ft wide at that point.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Hooking marks in a fleet of XODs is similar fun. Some people learn new words.