Alrob
Well-Known Member
agreed /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
marina charges for someone to work on my boat
- Thread starter Phillipuk
- Start date
Dyflin
Well-Known Member
Re: marina charges for someone to work on my boat
Do you pass the charge on as a "hidden cost" if levied on your company? Or list it on an itemised bill?
Do you pass the charge on as a "hidden cost" if levied on your company? Or list it on an itemised bill?
Alrob
Well-Known Member
Re: marina charges for someone to work on my boat
I think the monopolies commission may need to be informed about our marinas & their shenanigans
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I think the monopolies commission may need to be informed about our marinas & their shenanigans
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
lovezoo
Well-Known Member
Re: marina charges for someone to work on my boat
Well, all you need are some incriminating e-mails between marinas/yards agreeing the percentages to charge and you've got them for operating a cartel.
Otherwise you're free to go elsewhere, so its not a monopoly, just a rip-off.
Well, all you need are some incriminating e-mails between marinas/yards agreeing the percentages to charge and you've got them for operating a cartel.
Otherwise you're free to go elsewhere, so its not a monopoly, just a rip-off.
vanoord
Active Member
Re: marina charges for someone to work on my boat
We get charged to work in one marina locally, £10 a shot - we've taken to adding it to the bill as an itemised entry. If the job goes on to a second day, we get a second invoice. I've tended to drop the call-out fee from the invoices to balance things out.
What really irks me is when we charged for going to assess a job or when we're going to check something and not actually do any work. If we're not raising an invoice for the visit, I'm somewhat peeved to have to pay the marina for the sake of nothing.
We get charged to work in one marina locally, £10 a shot - we've taken to adding it to the bill as an itemised entry. If the job goes on to a second day, we get a second invoice. I've tended to drop the call-out fee from the invoices to balance things out.
What really irks me is when we charged for going to assess a job or when we're going to check something and not actually do any work. If we're not raising an invoice for the visit, I'm somewhat peeved to have to pay the marina for the sake of nothing.
alan006
Well-Known Member
Re: marina charges for someone to work on my boat
My personal view of what's fair is that the owner and his family should be free to do what work they want to do themselves. Bona-fida friends, ie people who go out on their boat with them should also be free to help. Smaller marinas know which people fit these groups.
Other people who want to work on people's boats should expect to be treated as professionals, that means they should have the correct insurance and expect to be treated like all the other professionals. I include the odd berth-holder who lets people know that he can help out for a drink. Where you draw the line is bound to be different for everyone.
I don't begrudge the other yards the fees I pay them, so perhaps that makes me a mug. I don't think so.
My personal view of what's fair is that the owner and his family should be free to do what work they want to do themselves. Bona-fida friends, ie people who go out on their boat with them should also be free to help. Smaller marinas know which people fit these groups.
Other people who want to work on people's boats should expect to be treated as professionals, that means they should have the correct insurance and expect to be treated like all the other professionals. I include the odd berth-holder who lets people know that he can help out for a drink. Where you draw the line is bound to be different for everyone.
I don't begrudge the other yards the fees I pay them, so perhaps that makes me a mug. I don't think so.
Phillipuk
New Member
Re: marina charges for someone to work on my boat
did i miss something above?if you sell yourt own boat at a marina you have to pay as well even though they have not done anything
I was talking to someone today who had a local unemployed person come down to clean his boat once a week and after a month the marna charged him £40 + VAT for it. He gave the lad £20 to clean his boat and was told he would have his boat taken if he did not pay, and asked to leave, he sacked the local lad.
did i miss something above?if you sell yourt own boat at a marina you have to pay as well even though they have not done anything
I was talking to someone today who had a local unemployed person come down to clean his boat once a week and after a month the marna charged him £40 + VAT for it. He gave the lad £20 to clean his boat and was told he would have his boat taken if he did not pay, and asked to leave, he sacked the local lad.
alan006
Well-Known Member
Re: marina charges for someone to work on my boat
Try looking at it this way.
You get a whole range of work that needs doing on a boat from emptying an ashtray right through to a complete refurbishment of mechanical and structural items. For the major jobs the yard might use cranes, boat lifts and all sorts of specalist equipment. If you look on the forum you will often see people unhappy about waiting for major work to be done by the yards, why are there these delays?
Well, in my opinion it is because more and more customers are using yards for the larger jobs and finding independants for the smaller jobs. In the past the yard used less experienced trainee engineers ( under supervision) to do these jobs, but now because of the costs of employing they cannot match the rates of independants for these more routine jobs. This means that we are not bringing in the youngsters I would like to see as the future for all of us.
My experienced engineers are very busy but I cannot justify taking on youngsters to train up... which is a shame as in our yard we have engineers who could teach youngsters a lot.
The second implication of this is that on the big complex jobs that keep us busy all the work is being done by experienced engineers, some parts of the jobs could be done by less experienced engineers ( under supervision). If yards stand by and do nothing this skills void will continue.
It's hardly serious to a yard if a lad cleans a boat once a week, but if you analysis what you are comparing it is paying someone cash ( no paye, no ni, no insurance, no nothing) and expecting a yard to match that.........well, tell me how, I'd love to know.
Try looking at it this way.
You get a whole range of work that needs doing on a boat from emptying an ashtray right through to a complete refurbishment of mechanical and structural items. For the major jobs the yard might use cranes, boat lifts and all sorts of specalist equipment. If you look on the forum you will often see people unhappy about waiting for major work to be done by the yards, why are there these delays?
Well, in my opinion it is because more and more customers are using yards for the larger jobs and finding independants for the smaller jobs. In the past the yard used less experienced trainee engineers ( under supervision) to do these jobs, but now because of the costs of employing they cannot match the rates of independants for these more routine jobs. This means that we are not bringing in the youngsters I would like to see as the future for all of us.
My experienced engineers are very busy but I cannot justify taking on youngsters to train up... which is a shame as in our yard we have engineers who could teach youngsters a lot.
The second implication of this is that on the big complex jobs that keep us busy all the work is being done by experienced engineers, some parts of the jobs could be done by less experienced engineers ( under supervision). If yards stand by and do nothing this skills void will continue.
It's hardly serious to a yard if a lad cleans a boat once a week, but if you analysis what you are comparing it is paying someone cash ( no paye, no ni, no insurance, no nothing) and expecting a yard to match that.........well, tell me how, I'd love to know.
Major Catastrophe
Well-Known Member
Re: marina charges for someone to work on my boat
Many marinas do not have on site workshops or engineers, but still charge an access fee.
The nearest analogy I can think of is the landord or management company of a block of flats charging everyone from the TV repair man to the delivery man with your new sofa from DFS for access.
Just because it is apparently 'normal' in the boating world, doesn't mean it is fair.
I like to deal with businesses that have the conviction that their fees match their service, without resorting to charge for the air that we breathe.
Make your fees transparent and compete properly.
Many marinas do not have on site workshops or engineers, but still charge an access fee.
The nearest analogy I can think of is the landord or management company of a block of flats charging everyone from the TV repair man to the delivery man with your new sofa from DFS for access.
Just because it is apparently 'normal' in the boating world, doesn't mean it is fair.
I like to deal with businesses that have the conviction that their fees match their service, without resorting to charge for the air that we breathe.
Make your fees transparent and compete properly.
alan006
Well-Known Member
Re: marina charges for someone to work on my boat
Good afternoon General,
Always good to have you onboard.
At the end of the day the market will choose and my guess is that most people will go for the cheapest short term solution.
However, the consequence of that could be yards offering a much reduced service. Look at the small hardware stores that couldn't compete against the big DIY stores. There are very few of them left and the DIY stores have pumped up their prices. Short term shopping can have unfortunate medium and long term results.
Still, we all have limited budgets and I'm not here to have a pop at anyone. It seems a shame that yards will stop being all things to all people and specalise to compete.
You say compete properly, well give us a chance to by making the independants conform to the same regulations as us.
Carry on!!
Good afternoon General,
Always good to have you onboard.
At the end of the day the market will choose and my guess is that most people will go for the cheapest short term solution.
However, the consequence of that could be yards offering a much reduced service. Look at the small hardware stores that couldn't compete against the big DIY stores. There are very few of them left and the DIY stores have pumped up their prices. Short term shopping can have unfortunate medium and long term results.
Still, we all have limited budgets and I'm not here to have a pop at anyone. It seems a shame that yards will stop being all things to all people and specalise to compete.
You say compete properly, well give us a chance to by making the independants conform to the same regulations as us.
Carry on!!
lookout
Well-Known Member
Re: marina charges for someone to work on my boat
at my previous marina/yard.
They had no electronics/electrics guys at all , nor employed engineers for engines/mechanicals etc, tho there was a guy on site for that, also a stainless steel fabricator.
soo, Boatowner needs some wiring done - either he gets a man in & pays £25 extra per man/day cuz not through yard; or gets the yard "to do it". which involved umm, the yard getting an outside electrical man in, who charged his normal retail rates; then the yard slapping 50% on top. Much the same thing for marine engineery & welding stuff too.
at my previous marina/yard.
They had no electronics/electrics guys at all , nor employed engineers for engines/mechanicals etc, tho there was a guy on site for that, also a stainless steel fabricator.
soo, Boatowner needs some wiring done - either he gets a man in & pays £25 extra per man/day cuz not through yard; or gets the yard "to do it". which involved umm, the yard getting an outside electrical man in, who charged his normal retail rates; then the yard slapping 50% on top. Much the same thing for marine engineery & welding stuff too.
Major Catastrophe
Well-Known Member
Re: marina charges for someone to work on my boat
Thanks Private.
But, the attitude is flying in the face of current trends. If the on site workshops are too expensive, then they deserve to go. It is a monopolistic practice, not illegal, but probably not in the boat owners interest.
Things are changing and people want choice, without being penalised.
And pay attention back there, as this is not my first post on this thread. I already said that I ask my marina if they charged extra before signing the berthing contract and even got them to cross out the brokerage fee clause.
At ease.
Thanks Private.
But, the attitude is flying in the face of current trends. If the on site workshops are too expensive, then they deserve to go. It is a monopolistic practice, not illegal, but probably not in the boat owners interest.
Things are changing and people want choice, without being penalised.
And pay attention back there, as this is not my first post on this thread. I already said that I ask my marina if they charged extra before signing the berthing contract and even got them to cross out the brokerage fee clause.
At ease.
lovezoo
Well-Known Member
Re: marina charges for someone to work on my boat
Congratulations on the promotion. Is it now GenerallyCatastrophic or just GeneralCatastrophe?
Congratulations on the promotion. Is it now GenerallyCatastrophic or just GeneralCatastrophe?
alan006
Well-Known Member
Re: marina charges for someone to work on my boat
I think you make some fair points, General, I don't think that yards will be able to sustain something if their customers don't agree with the reasons for it. From the other posts there seem to be a lot of yards that are abusing their position.
I felt that it would give everyone a chance to see the other side of the coin if I chipped in. I prefer to do things by agreement with customers, after all without them it would be jolly quiet at work.
By the way, I was never in the army, I was in the real one (RN), must have been the picture of Captain Birdseye when I was a young lad, also the thought of walking everywhere,.....oh dear me, no.
Roger...out.
I think you make some fair points, General, I don't think that yards will be able to sustain something if their customers don't agree with the reasons for it. From the other posts there seem to be a lot of yards that are abusing their position.
I felt that it would give everyone a chance to see the other side of the coin if I chipped in. I prefer to do things by agreement with customers, after all without them it would be jolly quiet at work.
By the way, I was never in the army, I was in the real one (RN), must have been the picture of Captain Birdseye when I was a young lad, also the thought of walking everywhere,.....oh dear me, no.
Roger...out.
DougH
Well-Known Member
Re: marina charges for someone to work on my boat
If instead of a marina and we were talking about a factory where you could store/park your car on a long term basis, and that had garage/car repair facilities on site owned by the factory owner, do you really think the factory owner should allow outside contractors to work on the cars.
The factory owner is in business to make money, he is not a charity, and he is not there to provide premises free of charge to mobil contractors.
Remember you are only paying to park your car at the factory.
What is the difference if the factory is a marina?
Before anyone asks, no I do not own a marina.
If instead of a marina and we were talking about a factory where you could store/park your car on a long term basis, and that had garage/car repair facilities on site owned by the factory owner, do you really think the factory owner should allow outside contractors to work on the cars.
The factory owner is in business to make money, he is not a charity, and he is not there to provide premises free of charge to mobil contractors.
Remember you are only paying to park your car at the factory.
What is the difference if the factory is a marina?
Before anyone asks, no I do not own a marina.
Major Catastrophe
Well-Known Member
Re: marina charges for someone to work on my boat
I gathered you were not a green job as your rank recognition is poor. If you had met me, you would know I would never make General rank.
Carry on.
20m, I don't think your argument stands up as there are not hundreds of car storage 'factories' where people store cars, live in them and invite people to work on them. It is easier to drive it round to a cheap garage.
I gathered you were not a green job as your rank recognition is poor. If you had met me, you would know I would never make General rank.
Carry on.
20m, I don't think your argument stands up as there are not hundreds of car storage 'factories' where people store cars, live in them and invite people to work on them. It is easier to drive it round to a cheap garage.
DougH
Well-Known Member
Re: marina charges for someone to work on my boat
Majorcatastrophe,
Yep I agree it would be easier to drive round to a cheap garage, so conversly why should'nt the marine contractor have premises or berths available (at his cost) where you can take your boat.
Why should the marina allow other companies to operate from their premises at no cost.
Majorcatastrophe,
Yep I agree it would be easier to drive round to a cheap garage, so conversly why should'nt the marine contractor have premises or berths available (at his cost) where you can take your boat.
Why should the marina allow other companies to operate from their premises at no cost.
rickp
Well-Known Member
Re: marina charges for someone to work on my boat
err, because I'm already paying them to be in their facilities. Paying handsomely too with annual increases far about inflation. So whether my boat is in teh water, or on the hard (for which I will have paid the yard to do the lift and properly prop up the boat ashore) - I *am* paying the yard. So there is no need for them to charge the contractor I chose to work on my boat.
Its funny that these marinas need to ensure that contractors that come on site have appropriate insurance and yet they're not so fast to ensure that visiting boats (or resident boats even) have appropriate insurance. I'm sure that has nothing to do with wanting to ensure they get a slice of the contractor's bill. Oh no.
Rick
err, because I'm already paying them to be in their facilities. Paying handsomely too with annual increases far about inflation. So whether my boat is in teh water, or on the hard (for which I will have paid the yard to do the lift and properly prop up the boat ashore) - I *am* paying the yard. So there is no need for them to charge the contractor I chose to work on my boat.
Its funny that these marinas need to ensure that contractors that come on site have appropriate insurance and yet they're not so fast to ensure that visiting boats (or resident boats even) have appropriate insurance. I'm sure that has nothing to do with wanting to ensure they get a slice of the contractor's bill. Oh no.
Rick
lookout
Well-Known Member
Re: marina charges for someone to work on my boat
[ QUOTE ]
Its funny that these marinas need to ensure that contractors that come on site have appropriate insurance and yet they're not so fast to ensure that visiting boats (or resident boats even) have appropriate insurance. I'm sure that has nothing to do with wanting to ensure they get a slice of the contractor's bill. Oh no.
[/ QUOTE ]
ho ho, and how very right you are Rick.
still, it's all there in the fine-print eh? dunno how we missed it. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
[ QUOTE ]
Its funny that these marinas need to ensure that contractors that come on site have appropriate insurance and yet they're not so fast to ensure that visiting boats (or resident boats even) have appropriate insurance. I'm sure that has nothing to do with wanting to ensure they get a slice of the contractor's bill. Oh no.
[/ QUOTE ]
ho ho, and how very right you are Rick.
still, it's all there in the fine-print eh? dunno how we missed it. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
DougH
Well-Known Member
Re: marina charges for someone to work on my boat
rickp,
We are paying to berth/store our boats in the marina and we can work on them personally as we wish.
When a contractor enters the marina he is running a business on the marina's premises without cost to him.
Why is it so unreasonable to expect the marina to charge the contractor for this privalige? If they had called him in they would add a profit for themselves.
Whether the contractor pays the marina direct or you pay the marina on his behalf is immaterial
We should all remember that the marina represents a business with huge investments and borrowings and to us it is only leisure.
If they did not make these profits and investments there would'nt be any marinas.
rickp,
We are paying to berth/store our boats in the marina and we can work on them personally as we wish.
When a contractor enters the marina he is running a business on the marina's premises without cost to him.
Why is it so unreasonable to expect the marina to charge the contractor for this privalige? If they had called him in they would add a profit for themselves.
Whether the contractor pays the marina direct or you pay the marina on his behalf is immaterial
We should all remember that the marina represents a business with huge investments and borrowings and to us it is only leisure.
If they did not make these profits and investments there would'nt be any marinas.
