Manual versus windlass anchors

25 kg anchor, 80 metres 3/8 inch chain, and manual windlass, cruising west and northern Scottish anchorages, skipper and one crew aged 50 plus and 60 plus. No problems if set up properly with a big bow roller, or double roller, to reduce friction and you know what you are doing.
What are you all whinging about?
Electrics up in the wettest part of the boat is OK for gentle lunch hook and back to the marina for the night use. However, not so reliable for serious cruising, so you will need to have a workable manual recovery system anyway. The problem now is finding an efficient manual windlass for smaller boats.
 
A new windlass for 8mm chain will cost you Stg1,000 (someone in the UK can correct that). Installation is relatively easy - you can do it yourself. Decide which windlass you want (ask for advise here) then again ask about installation - its really not difficult. My guess is your batteries are under the berths, amidships, and a run from there to a windlass is not extreme. It depends, obviously, on the yacht you are looking at - but you might need to upgrade the battery. The wiring costs are not significant, you will also need a circuit breaker (which may come with the windlass). You can wire controls to the helm and/or at the windlass, you can use a remote. Most modern windlass will successfully handle both rope and chain but when you buy the windlass the gypsy needs to match the chain, another obvious, and 8mm will be more than adequate.

Any yacht with a windlass has the windlass located at the bow - most people swear by windlass (at the bow) and have no issues. It is invaluable to have a fall back - but in 20 years we have used our (fallback) twice.

The trouble with people who are 60 plus is that can soon become 70 plus and manual retrieval of the rode should not be the reason, then, to give up sailing or sell that yacht. Bite the bullet now.

But you have used a windlass previously - you know some or all of this.

We have a Maxwell RC8 with 1000watt motor. Its retrieval speed is 32m/min. We can retrieve almost all our chain in 2 mins, we carry 75m (except in reality it takes longer as you need to wait to break a, 'good', anchor out.

The big advantage of an electric windlass comes at 2am when you decide you really must move as the cost of divorce is too high. Its raining. Modern windlass make the decision easy and you will make it before divorce is even mentioned.

Jonathan
 
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Neeves said:
Its retrieval speed is 32m/min
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I guess this must be a key factor with a windlass. Bikedaft has a SL. they ceased trading 25+ years ago . Modern electric motors must be a lot more powerfull for their size today.
I need to measure the m/min on my manual windlass out of curiosity. The seatigers still command a great used price and are sought after.
 
Just to stir the pot: 55 ft , 24 ton, boat. 80 metres of 12mm chain. 75lbs CQR. S-L SeaTiger manual windlass, which I bought and fitted new last year (S-L Spares still make them, to order).

I do intend to add a second windlass, a second chain and a new generation anchor in due course, and a new stem head roller fitting, but this does actually work. I know what I want in terms of (Spade) anchor, (Ketten Walder) stainless chain and (Lighthouse) electric windlass but I am OK for now.

To put it another way, better the best manual windlass than a cheap electric one.

I arrived at the decision after a few yards of correspondence with Neeves and with Bajansailor, whom I would like to thank.
 
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Kukri said:
I do intend to add a second windlass,
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Electric or manual?
Had no idea you could still buy a new one. Price on application?
Blakes and sons is another defunct company but the items are still manufactured by seasure. The toilets are as little as £4100 now... :eek:
I wonder how many other boat items that are old but still manufactured today just because they were so good?
 
Rappey said:
Electric or manual?
Had no idea you could still buy a new one. Price on application?
Blakes and sons is another defunct company but the items are still manufactured by seasure. The toilets are as little as £4100 now... :eek:
I wonder how many other boat items that are old but still manufactured today just because they were so good?
Click to expand...

Electric. One of these:
Lighthouse Manufacturing USA



for a new SeaTiger, apply here:
Parts for Seatiger 555 Windlass | Simpson Lawrence Yacht Parts & Spares

The price of the SeaTiger (which I persist in calling a 555) is not in the Blakes league and John is very helpful.
 
I have a Moody 31, as near 10m as makes no difference, except when I'm paying marina bills! The foredeck layout is such as to make fitting an electric windlass difficult, without impacting the space in the forecabin - it would need a vertical axis winch mounted behind the chain locker, as there isn't a reasonable way to mount a horizontal axis winch, short of placing it actually in the chain locker. Further, I'd need to place a supplementary battery somewhere in the forecabin; my main battery bank is right aft and is not an enormously high capacity. Therefore, I don' t have an electric winch. What I do have is the sadly no longer made Anchorman winch, a vertical axis manual winch. I also have about 55m of chain and a CQR anchor. I find that I can retrieve chain with the manual winch without too much strain by motoring (just ticking over) towards the anchor while winding it in - the trick is to get right down with my body over the winch. There's no danger involved; I can handle it quite easily. I did once have ALL my chain out, in 20m of water, and a friend and I retrieved the chain and anchor by hand without the windlass. It was doable, but left us both breathing hard - and my friend was a hefty lad, too.

For lowering the anchor it is in any case my usual practice to range it on deck before lowering.

The advantage of the Anchorman type of winch is that you can wind as fast as you like; there isn't a to-and-fro lever to operate, so when there's little strain on the rode, you can wind it in quickly. The drawback is that the mechanical advantage isn't as great as for horizontal axis winches; you can increase it by using a longer winch handle, but there are obvious limits to that!
 
I mounted my manual Lofrans Royale windlass just ahead of the forward end of the coachroof and directly above the chain locker between the forward bunks.

It's a very convenient location since I can sit comfortably on the fore hatch to crank it.

It is very slow to operate although powerful. Most of the time I just haul in the chain hand over hand, also while sitting on the fore hatch.

When letting go I can just let the chain freewheel out to the required length while sitting on the fore hatch, and then belay it on a samson post.

A useful addition I intend to fit is a pawl between the bow roller and the windlass.


benodet bow view windlass.jpg
 
Chris R said:
I am used to a electric anchor windlass but the boat I am considering does not have one
I have read that deploying and retrieving an anchor by hand on a 10 m yacht can be hard work and possibly dangerous

all views appreciated please

thanks
chris
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On recommendation of a forumite, I installed a manual SL anchor winch IN the anchor locker, and use my battery-powered Winchrite to lift the anchor (31 ft boat, 10 kg Rocna). Works fast enough.
 
I coped last season with a manual windlass singlehanded on a 12m boat. It's not bad when there's no load on the chain - motor up, run to the bow, crank the handle. In little or no wind it's fine. It's a horrible job if there's a lot of wind and you have to reset the anchor a couple of times. I will undoubtedly spring for an electric windlass as soon as the opportunity presents itself; this will probably require renewing all the rest of the ground tackle at the same time.
 
KompetentKrew has the best way to do it - start again with the complete package (which sadly has the downside you need a big slug of money). But buying it all at once, and Kukri will be doing the same thing, means you end up with all the components matching each other and the yacht. Most of us buy a chain sized for the size of the gypsy not for the size of the yacht nor the size we actually would choose (feely - with hindsight of better chain now available). Too often I see 2 shackles needed to attach anchor to chain - because the new anchor will not accept the shackle that fits the chain and too often small yachts appear to carry chain totally out of proportion to the yacht. Strangely chain is nearly always oversized, not undersized, and coupled with the fashion for the oversized anchors the extra wight really must impact sailing performance.

But in the cold light of wallet sizes - this is not always possible.

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
the fashion for the oversized anchors
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Depends where you sail and how often you are willing to drag and 'reset' your anchor. We carefully lay our anchor, set it, and on all but a handful of occasions over 40 plus years of cruising stay put until its time to leave.
I have been told my anchor is too big when in marinas. However, I like to able to sleep securely in a reasonably sheltered anchorage when winds are gusting to 50 knots . At mean wind speeds of 60 knots plus the wind noise keeps me awake and I will have laid a second 'oversized' anchor. All these conditions have been experienced in northern UK waters.
 
srm said:
Depends where you sail and how often you are willing to drag and 'reset' your anchor. We carefully lay our anchor, set it, and on all but a handful of occasions over 40 plus years of cruising stay put until its time to leave.
I have been told my anchor is too big when in marinas. However, I like to able to sleep securely in a reasonably sheltered anchorage when winds are gusting to 50 knots . At mean wind speeds of 60 knots plus the wind noise keeps me awake and I will have laid a second 'oversized' anchor. All these conditions have been experienced in northern UK waters.
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I'm speaking from a position of ignorance, but isn't there a risk of an over-sized anchor not setting because the forces exerted by the boat on the rode are insufficient? Surely the bigger the anchor, the more force is required to set it?

As I say, I don't know the answer for sure, and I'm perfectly happy with the CQR that came with the boat - but I only anchor occasionally, in sheltered anchorages and good weather. I might change my mind if I was was routinely anchoring in exposed anchorages.
 
SRM - The implication is that for the last 40 years you have been anchoring as you describe, that's since 1980 and limits you to CQR, Bruce and Danforth, I am most impressed.

You carefully lay your anchor in anchorages subject to the full fury of 60 knots, I'm even more impressed

Jonathan

AntarcticPilot - the hold of the anchor is determined by the tension in the rode and that tension is contingent on the power of the engine or the windage of the yacht. It does not matter how big, or small, the anchor is (as long as it is 'big enough') the hold will be identical (unless you magically increase the size of the yacht). Now science might have changed - but no-one has illustrated this change in science, yet

and yes, AP

I think the point you make

A larger anchor will be more shallow set than a smaller one. If the tension is maintained in a straight line pull - possibly not an issue - but if the tension veers//
 
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