Manoeuvring long keel sailboat out of birth in wind - Any tips?

Fr J Hackett said:
. Needles to say there was only one small fender placed roughly amidships dangling in the water. There ensued a brief and one-sided discussion on respecting other peoples property. Entente cordiale took a backwards step that day.
Click to expand...
One fender?You are lucky. French do not usually do "fenders"
 
Last edited:
fredrussell said:
I’ve suggested this before but what about a grappling hook on a heaving line for those difficult longkeel docking moments. It’s a bit harsh, but it won’t be your boat the grappling hook is digging in to, and when you explain to the owner of the ‘grappled’ AWB you have a long keel I’m sure his sympathy will outweigh his anger.
Click to expand...
There is a company that makes a folding plastic grapple specifically for the purpose
 
I find my fin keel boat much more awkward than her predecessor which had a full keel, a tiny engine with an offset prop and a bowsprit. She could be relied on to do two things - to turn to port on a sixpence (shove tiller hard over to starboard, give several short bursts of full ahead) and put her stern into the wind if she was left in astern for any length of time and if there was enough wind.

This boat has eight feet between the prop and the skeg rudder and she is completely unpredictable, because there is no prop wash left by the time it gets from the prop to the rudder, and the prop is too close to the CLR to act as a "sea anchor".

When in doubt, warp.
 
Last edited:
dunedin said:
Personally I am very much against crew walking along the shore then jumping on board at the last minute.
Much safer to have all crew on board safely prior to casting off (though does depend slightly on freeboard height etc).
And of course, not much use when solo.

Regrettably long keels were optimal for wooden construction and for harbours and anchorages of 100 years ago, with no finger berths and plenty of longshoremen to assist. Not optimal for modern harbours and usage.
Click to expand...
Very true.

When I radio ahead I explain my long keel and usually get a berth of easy entrance. I once watched a singlehanded owner on a 40ft steel Spray replica locking into the Caledonian canal and entering a marina berth. Totally in control, very calm, no engine revving, used the boat's way to best advantage. Oh for a days practice with him!

The trouble is that after several years of long keel sailing I find the positive characteristics of a long keel under sail, motor or at anchor still appeal and I can suffer the marina drama. Midship line with a loop, forwards into a berth and everything dead slow with bursts of ahead or astern.
 
Good luck with your quest. We have a long keel yacht and having owned it for 17 years I can say with some certainty that I have managed to go astern with confidence on zero occasions. I know that the bow will usually swing to starboard and that turning so that the stern is going to windward is an excellent idea. A galvanised bucket lowered from the bow helps, but you need to be going at some speed for this to be really effective. However, I have as many failures as I do successes.

My son (Ocean Yacht Master) has crewed on long keeled yachts built in the 1930’s reported that they used a powerful RIB as a bow thruster to help with some success, but when racing they might have a crew of nearly 30.

As said, good luck with your quest, but perhaps try something easier as a starter. The search for the Holy Grail might be an easier stating point, however, if you do come up with the definitive answer for Gods sake share it with me.
 
Quite good fun in a Twister or similar boat. whilst you cant really dictate which way you go Astern, you very much can going forwards. using your throttle and having the tiller hard over they can turn on a sixpence forward and reverse so to speak.. so if going the wrong way just spend time Going round. I had a really hard pontoon berth On the Hamble on the outside of Bursledon. the tide would run so fast on the second outgoing. much easier to go against than with, which is all so obvious to some but you only learn from hard earned experience.
Saw a lovelly boat leave the Elephant one day with 3 top sailors on board. Just had a big refit. They were off and untied the lines. they were pinned to boats at deacons for quite some time with the strong tide.

Steveeasy
 
After 20 years of owning a Nicholson 32, I can't say I ever knew what she was going to do in astern. I recall a nice day in Vannes attempting to turn her round from a chevron type berth (angled to the main pontoon). No amount of ahead/astern would get her to swing. There were no convenient cleats to make any attempt to warp her around (my favoured choice in crowded spaces), nor was there anyone available ashore to help. I had a mixed crew - 2 novices and one other experienced crew. In the end after much effort, we gave up and left it to my parents who were taking the boat over for the return trip.
Ahhh 1981 was a good year. I fell off a windsurfer in L'Aber Wrach resulting in a dislocated shoulder and a trip to Brest general hospital - an expensive stay as I had no travel insurance at the time, although a trip to Concarneau social services office with my newly acquired E111 recovered that. Wearing a sling in 3 weeks of blistering sunshine made for some interesting tan lines.

Piddy
 
Piddy said:
After 20 years of owning a Nicholson 32, I can't say I ever knew what she was going to do in astern. I recall a nice day in Vannes attempting to turn her round from a chevron type berth (angled to the main pontoon). No amount of ahead/astern would get her to swing. There were no convenient cleats to make any attempt to warp her around (my favoured choice in crowded spaces), nor was there anyone available ashore to help. I had a mixed crew -

Piddy
Click to expand...
This is where you need a good long paddle, an accoutrement that has sadly fallen from fashion.
 
I usually have plan B and C as well as A. If I can get her up to a speed where she will steer in reverse then the forces on the tiller can be hard to manage. I have been known to engage help from people running her along the pontoon finger, with lines from the other side of the berth, and from the harbour master tender. I'm not proud. I've cocked it up too many times!
 
Last edited:
as long as there are no conflicts ... don't forget the anchor ... you don't need a full on Bow Anchor ... but a Lunch Hook can do the job for you if no cleats / ways to spring of the pontoon etc.

My 25ft Motor Sailer has 43hp in there and a girt big prop !! Going astern is a matter of ... she's gonna go that way - whatever you do ..... so I live with it !!

So many people have been on her and said - c'mon - surely xxxxxxx .... so I hand over tiller and say - go on then !! First thing that hits them - is trying to hold that tiller !! Once she starts astern - that tiller really fights you ... and worst thing to do is put it more than a few degrees over ...
 
I know this problem very well. I fitted a 2.3 Honda onto the stern of my Folkboat, primarily for marina manoeuvring. The engine does 360° directional thrust. Of course, it's a Folkboat so fairly easy to stand at the stern and control the outboard.
I believe that it's saved a few 'conversations' with fellow marina folks around the North of Scotland.
 
jamie N said:
I know this problem very well. I fitted a 2.3 Honda onto the stern of my Folkboat, primarily for marina manoeuvring. The engine does 360° directional thrust. Of course, it's a Folkboat so fairly easy to stand at the stern and control the outboard.
I believe that it's saved a few 'conversations' with fellow marina folks around the North of Scotland.
Click to expand...

Given the E-motors out there now ... that's not a bad idea to develop .... a simple mount .. light E-motor ... slip it into place .... gives stern thruster ...
 
Daydream believer said:
Would, if you had the latest 40 CS Halberg Rassey, with the added extra stern thruster ;)
Click to expand...

There's a 42 HR sitting next to my C38 ... lovely boat - but owner has left her sitting ashore for a year .... story is when She bought it ... yes She bought it ... they sailed her to Latvia and found she was poor to windward ..... no idea or explanation why.
I tried to find out but all I got was - "experienced guys with her - they just could not get it to sail well".

Really well spec'd ketch ....
 
Refueler said:
There's a 42 HR sitting next to my C38 ... lovely boat - but owner has left her sitting ashore for a year .... story is when She bought it ... yes She bought it ... they sailed her to Latvia and found she was poor to windward ..... no idea or explanation why.
I tried to find out but all I got was - "experienced guys with her - they just could not get it to sail well".

Really well spec'd ketch ....
Click to expand...
I did say the latest- She certainly is not a ketch. My experience of sailing next to older generation HR's of the sub 37 ft is that they are certainly not- shall we say- fleet of foot.
But they do have qualities. I do recall sailing up the Wallet one day really quickly catching a 35. We were both on the run & he had the genoa boomed out. I had a full main but no jib as a ST would just gybe side to side with no pole to hold it out.
It was blowing about 15 kts & suddenly, without warning we were hit by a massive gust from astern. My bow started to go under & water came over the deck. My only option was to hold the boat dead square then ram the tiller over & spin round into the wind. This just let the main flog. Obviously I could not reef in such a short case.
I looked at the HR & I could not help noticing that she was sailing serenly on & I wonder if the helm even noticed the gust. It gave me a lesson in why perhaps HRs are loved by their owners.
 
14K478 said:
I find my fin keel boat much more awkward than her predecessor which had a full keel, a tiny engine with an offset prop and a bowsprit. She could be relied on to do two things - to turn to port on a sixpence (shove tiller hard over to starboard, give several short bursts of full ahead) and put her stern into the wind if she was left in astern for any length of time and if there was enough wind.

This boat has eight feet between the prop and the skeg rudder and she is completely unpredictable, because there is no prop wash left by the time it gets from the prop to the rudder, and the prop is too close to the CLR to act as a "sea anchor".

When in doubt, warp.
Click to expand...
I had this with my last boat, fin and blade rudder. Learn what speed you get steerage at. Then never go below that unless stopping! For me it was about 3/4 of a knot.

As for present full long keel boat, frequently I swing the boat on arrival or don't to make departure easier.

One temporary berth with cross tide we had I found the only way I could berth solo was to back in , in a fashion.

I would put all the mooring lines on the port side led to the starboard (or port depending on flood or ebb) quarter. Bring the stern as close as I dared to the end of the finger pontoon. Bow up current (sometimes stern if it was breezy), step on to the pontoon and pull her in.

I am a fan of walking the boat out of a berth, rather than trusting dubious steering astern. However low freeboard means easy boarding.

I have little faith in helpers, why do they feel the need to push the bow off when I asked them to guide it close along the pontoon, to swing the stern in the right direction.

It's like passing a rope ashore to a helping hand.
No:
I don't want it taken forward as a headline when wind and tide are from astern.
I don't want it taken to the nearest cleat and making fast for the boat to be brought up on sharply, then the stern spring out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top