Man overboard ....the sequel

[peteandthira]

Theboatman

In my waterskiing days this worked very well for getting the ski-rope back to a fallen skier, although you didn't drive round in circles. You just went round once then straightened up.

The oscar MOB recovery seems a lot longer than 20 feet, and has quite a large floating strop which I think will drag sufficiently not to follow the wake directly after a turn.

However, you have fired up my interest sufficiently to try it, once the wind gets below about 30 kts. Probably about June.

Pops

 

[graham]

[ QUOTE ]
On RYA PB courses that I instruct on some of the candidates occasionally suggest just that - and I duly let them try it with a line from the stern of the boat - the normal outcome after 10 minutes of trying is that they have to almost run the MOB down before they can get the line anywhere near the MOB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interested to hear that. I will definitely try it next time out.
could it be your students were going too fast during the turn or is the whole concept flawed?

did you use any form of drogue on the float you dragged or would that make it even worse?

I intended fitting one of these this winter but will experiment first before wasting time/money.

Im hoping to get some sailing in this week and will be on a 20 knot powerboat next week so I will be doing some experiments. I will Let you know how we get on.

Only thing I would add to your method described is if its at all possible to press the MOBbutton on the GPS if you can .Extremely valuable should you fail to find them immediately.

 

[Talbot]

I suspect your system will work ok for a monohull, but I have to do it different due to characteristics of my boat, and I know it works for me, cause I have done it for real in strong winds.

The basic problem for me is the drift rate if I stop beam on. I would probably drift right over the mob. and this is also why the rope trick would not work for me. with 1 engine and 2 rudders, trying to stop bows to wind is an exercise in futility, whereas stern to gives me great control and even te ability for lateral movement.

On my real rescue, the wind was top end 30 gusts into forty I was rescuing guy from a small cat that had capsized, I got abeam of him and had the engine going astern (flat out at times to remain in place - 27 hp diesel as well!) I then threw a rescue line to him, and had him secure himself on that line. I got my midships ladder in place, and then shut of the engine and started to haul him to me on the winch - boat was accelerating to 5kts sideways! managed to recover him on board before the inshore rescue arrived,

lessons learnt:
ladder over the side has to be long enough for legs to naturally be used to push mob up - bottom of mine is nearly 1 metre below waterline.
when trying to throw a rescue line, make sure you dont throw it against the rigging /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
when singlehanded, it is essential to be able to hear the vhf and be able to speak from the helm.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Have a look at these links

 

[Talbot]

here
Battery Size - 8 x D
Tested Lumen - 251.4
Candle Power - 100000
Weight (kg) - 2.1
Length (mm) - 229
Amps - 1.2
Watts - 14.4
Volts - 12

 

[TheBoatman]

Let me know the results as I'm genuinely interested to know.

I think you'll find that you have to get so close to the MOB to get the rope to contact them that it's self defeating in as much as being that close you might as well recover them at that point!

Peter.

 

[TheBoatman]

[ QUOTE ]
Only thing I would add to your method described is if its at all possible to press the MOB button on the GPS if you can .Extremely valuable should you fail to find them immediately.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree - in my scenario it is impossible to mention all the things you can/could do. What I can say is that all rescues are different - no two are exactly the same.

The MOB button is good to press because it gives an exact position that the MOB entered the water - this info is invaluable to the GC if you can't find them - it gives them the position and they can work out the drift factor.

On the downside it has been known for a boats crew to become fixated on the GPS MOB position and when they return to that position they expect to find the MOB sitting there waiting to be rescued, they forget that the MOB is unaffected by the wind but greatly affected by the tide.

The one thing that IMHO is "thee" most important thing to do, is not to loose sight of the MOB whilst you try and get the boat back to them. BUT in the original posters post he said that his scenario was that he or SWMBO would be left alone on the boat. Going below to hit the MOB button may not be the best thing to do under those circumstances.

As I have repeatedly said rescues/MOB situations are all different and when a MOB goes over board things tend to get very tense very quickly.

BUT, and this is only my opinion, if you have a dan buoy get it away a.s.a.p because it offers a much better visual point of reference for both those left on the boat and the MOB. Then get the boat turned and down wind of the MOB/dan buoy as I said earlier.

The bottom line is - it doesn't matter what you do, in what order, what you throw over the side, so long as you make contact with them a.s.a.p.

Peter.

 

[peteandthira]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you'll find that you have to get so close to the MOB to get the rope to contact them that it's self defeating in as much as being that close you might as well recover them at that point!

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite possibly, although you don't have to stop in the right place. I know all this requires that the casualty has the ability to drop it over his head, but single handed I think it's the way to go.

I can just winch her in then, and let the boat do its own thing hove-to.

However, it is the first on the list for our next trip up the river, and I will try quite a few different drops and let you know what happens.

Pops

 

[Danny Jo]

Re: Man overboard - test results and horror stories

This excellent report makes it clear that there is no perfect solution. The one clear message from it is practice, practice, practice.

"At the Crewoverboard Rescue Symposium on San Francisco Bay, California, held August 9-12, 2005, some 400 tests were conducted of 40 items of gear and numerous rescue methods by 115 volunteers in 15 sail and powerboats of many types, including multihulls, cruisers, and racers. Conditions ranged from a light wind and flat sea to a 35-knot blow and steep chop. Out of these tests came findings of considerable practical value, including:
• New rescue techniques for several types of multihulls and powerboats
• Improved rescue techniques for keel sailboats
• New understandings of standard maneuvers, the advisability of matching them to boat types, and the need to be prepared to improvise on them
• Appreciation of differences between various emergency lights and alarms
• Identification of problems with rescue equipment, operator’s manuals, and trends in boat design and construction"

Final report - Crew overboard 2005 symposium

It includes tables of the recovery times of different methods.

My own experience of hypothermia following a capsize without a wet suit (the rudder broke) on Graffham water on a November day some years ago reminds me that, after 5 minutes in the water, the victim may not be able to hang on to a line thrown to him.

Don't read these if you want to sleep tonight

 

[fisherman]

Re: Man overboard - test results and horror stories

I have to pick up a buff ten times a day. It is amazing how close you can get without seeing it, particularly if the colour and sea conditions are unhelpful. It is also amazing how it vanishes the moment you look away, and remember all my electronics are at the helm, and I'm not constrained by sails etc. If you are going to have to look away, then, IMHO, you must have a point of reference, and I go for the toys every time.

As suggested above, practice in your own boat is probably the answer, and try with a 2 x 25 litre drums of water to simulate the MOB.

 

[peteandthira]

Re: Man overboard - test results and horror stories

Freestyle

Thanks for your bedtime reading. A really good one! You might consider starting a new thread with that, many may have become bored with this one and no longer be reading.

Pops

 

[Vara]

Re: Man overboard - test results and horror stories

Thanks for that fascinating stuff.
I've said before that when teaching soldiers to sail I used to put real people in the water.(I know. Probably wouldn't do it now but we only did it in benign conditions and often when tied to pontoon.).
Getting alongside the casualty was the easy bit.Getting them back aboard was really hard,even with 4/5 fit and strong crew members.
The system I evolved for the lift was,reverse main sheet to use as hoist,preventer fore and aft and heave the poor sod up.It needed preparation and practise to get it right and was predicated on the hope that the casualty could clip the mainsheet to his/her harness.It relied on a lot of muscle power and brute force and the casualty rarely came aboard unscathed.
In subsequent sailing mainly two handed I've often pondered the problem and not come up with any solution which bears scrutiny.
Get alongside casualty and call for help is the best I can do,especially as with advancing years and consequent decline in physical ability self help becomes more difficult.(brought home to me doing the last survival course,10 years ago I was the one getting people into the life raft this year I was the one needing help!)

Note experience gained on sailing mono hulls with moderate to high free board and no bathing platforms.

 

[Searush]

Re: Man overboard - test results and horror stories

Thanks for all the responses. I've learnt a lot thanks. And yes, I will test it out next spring. By the way, my floating line is a 220' climbing rope. Coils & throws well, very strong with predictable stretch and floats too. Get them from your local climbing group - often very cheap after x numbers of climbs.

I believe that such a length will allow me to circle once or twice leaving a loop around the casualty. Then stopping and pulling it in should draw in the the circle round the casualty. The idea is to pull casualty to boat, which is easier & much quicker (very important!) than putting boat close to person. It also avoids having to travel some distance from the casualty to come back on them up wind or tide - and allows you to keep them in eyeball range.

I agree about the issue of travelling at 7 knots - and that would have to be downhill in a gale with my boat - but that's when sh*t happens isn't it! Still, turning into the wind & engine on should allow me to get the line out so it can be dragged across the casualty relatively easily & under control.

The boatman's actual experience is really helpful, but I would like to know what sort of boat, speed & length of warp was used.

 

[TheBoatman]

Re: Man overboard - test results and horror stories

Searush
Over the years I've tried it in a number of different boats from speed boats, work-boats to yachts under engine. line lengths varied from 60' - about 100'. All the lines were of the floating type and the worst was the 100' line as the candidates that tried it almost ran back over it.

I'll leave you with a few thoughts to contemplate over the winter!

Water skiers use the method extensively but then they are normally only out in relatively calm conditions and pass v.close to the skier to make contact.

If the system works so well why do the RYA not teach it and the RNLI never use it?

Why do fishermen always mark their gear with a dan buoy and not just a float?

On the last point above insert "considerate" before fishermen as I don't want to head off at a tangent about badly marked commercial fishing gear!!!

Peter.

 

[Danny Jo]

Re: Man overboard - test results and horror stories

[ QUOTE ]
Over the years I've tried it [circling the victim, trailing a rope] in a number of different boats from speed boats, work-boats to yachts under engine. line lengths varied from 60' - about 100'. All the lines were of the floating type and the worst was the 100' line as the candidates that tried it almost ran back over it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This problem is referred to in the American report:
"The Lifesling is a buoyant yoke dragged astern at the end of a line, with the boat maneuvering in a way that puts the line or sling into the victim’s hands. This is usually accomplished by doing a Quick Stop. (Turns must be elliptical. The Island Packet 38 made several perfect circles around a victim without the Lifesling’s (sic) getting any closer to him. Once the sailors stretched out the circle, the rescue was effected.) The victim grabs the line or sling, the boat is stopped, the victim is pulled to the boat, and a halyard or tackle hoists the sling with the victim in it on deck."