making the leap

[Appleyard]

OK.. we have been looking at boats to buy...there seem to be several of the type we are after ...(35' centre cockpit etc ) ..there now follows a daft question...are the prices being asked for boats fixed? or is one expected to negotiate an offer based on surveyors report,own instinct and /or sellers need for a sale? ,ie are the prices asked based on what the seller is hoping to get for the boat?Do people tend to ask a higher price and expect to accept something a bit less?

Also ..Should we be looking at a boat 3-4 years old ...pay a higher price for it and assume that it is in good enough shape not to require major work,or would we be better off buying an older boat,for less and spending the difference in bringing it up to standard,eg engine rebuild,hull ,rigging, electrics ,etc all restored.
I am fortunate enough to have a very large shed which will easily house a boat of the size we are after,so this is a consideration.
We are looking at a Westerly or a Moody.
The intention is to retire in about a year or so,take the boat down to the Med and grow old disgracefully from then on.
The information and advive we have had so far from this forum have been spot on...Thanks all.!!!!!

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[mocruising]

Drive a hard bargain. Most boats (My opinion) advertised privately or through brokers are 30% over priced. Look for the small print "Motivated seller" "Estate sale" "New boat in build/being delivered" Keen seller" check the boats out that have been advertised for long periods this does not necessarily mean they are no good. I bought a boat in August that I had been tracking for 14 months, I found out that the owner had actually taken delivery of his new boat and paid 80% of the asking price, for a 7 year old boat. There is generally more room for negotiation on older boats (My opinion). Always use a survey report especially a bad one to beat down the price, much the same as buying a house really. Don't be in a hurry have two or three options always offer a lower price than you expect to pay you can always come up and revise your offer. However one word of advice if you are traveling long distance to look at a boat or making the seller jump through hoops, try and agree a ball park figure subject to survey beforehand to avoid disappointment and wasting time from both sides.

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[AndrewB]

Yeah, buying a second-hand boat is some way between buying a house and buying a used car privately. Unless 'no offers' is clearly stated, then you make one. I guess most buyers are hoping for about 95% of the asking price, and some are a lot more 'realistic' than others. You don't have a lot to lose by making a much lower bid provided you've done your research, know what's being asked for similar yachts and know the yacht's been on the market for a while and the seller seems keen. (As with houses, a few just seem to like showing people over). A broker, like an estate agent, will normally hint as to whether the seller will take an offer. Of course he'll try and talk you up but bear in mind he'll also be trying to talk the seller down.

As with cars there can be a lot of depreciation in the first few years. However, the price of new yachts has been slipping in recent years with the rise of volume producers, so currently the saving on an older yacht may be less than you might think. Don't forget that an older boat will come with a lot of extra kit over the basic new spec, could easily be worth £10k or more - but also don't make the mistake of valuing that kit at its replacement cost.

Buying a boat about 3-4 years is probably the best time for minimising the amount of routine problems you will have to face, also the producer will still be around to supply spares. But boats long outlast cars, think in terms of 30+ years with reasonable treatment, so buying a ten year old boat isn't like a 10 year old banger. And even new boats can have problems - though they may long outlast cars, they are still a lot less reliable to run. Don't think you can entirely buy your way out of problems.

I don't think the survey can or should be regarded as a real bargaining point. Most surveys concentrate on a list of things needing fixing. The cost will be reduced to cover them, if the seller doesn't sort them himself, but you don't gain anything, because they really will have to be fixed for the insurers. If the surveyor should say the yacht is in seriously unseaworthy shape, would you want it at any price? If he tells you that you are paying too much, that's tough: by now you have contractually agreed a price and this on its own isn't a legitimate reason for backing out.

 

[cozy]

you can always make an offer 'subject to survey', so aren't contractually bound at that stage. When it comes to age vs price, its a complex juggling act. Yes it will be cheaper, and yes a four year old boat will have plenty of life left in it, but at what stage will you need to consider replacing standing rigging, 10 yrs? How hard has the engine worked? How modern are the electronics?

Happy shopping!



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[pjohnson]

It is always best to make an offer subject to survey but if values are 30% overpriced I have made a serious mistake. I beleive the seller will have a price that they are willing to be knocked down to, subject to survey obviously, but won't normally go much lower. It does really depend on the seller circumstances however.
I am of the opinion that certain brokers over estimate boat prices, they work on a percentage obviously.
I had an offer accepted on a boat (subject to survey), the surveyor found £5000 worth of repairs, the seller would not meet the cost therefore no deal done. The cost to me was haul out and surveyors fees about £500 I think, but money still well spent. I found out later that the boat had been sold (to an unsuspecting buyer in my opinion) for more than my original offer and is again for sale through the same broker for more than before without the work being done.

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