Make Poverty History

[catmandoo]

On 6th to 8th July the wealthy nations of the world will be holding the G8 conference at Gleaneagles hotel in Perthshire Scotland .

There is an oportunity for change as these people make key decisions on world poverty. They will review progress on achieving UN targets for reducing world poverty by 2015. Unless MAKE POVERTY HISTORY campaign has an impact these targets have little chance of being met

Its aims are simple;

Trade justice
Drop the debt
More and better aid

MAKE POVERTY HISTORY wants

Donors to deliver at least $50 billion more in aid
Rich countries to set a binding timetable for spending 0.7 percent of national income on aid
Aid to be made to work more effectively for poor people

The UK government has already pledged to reach the 0.7 percent target by 2013. But the time table for change is too slow . Other rich countries havn't even made this committment

What can you do ?

1
Show the world , wear a MAKE POVERTY HISTORY white wrist band to work , or where ever . Order from www.tearfund .org /2005 or call tearfund on 0845 355
8355
2 Put pen to paper , write to your local MP and share your feelings about the effects of trade injustice and debt on poor countries
3 Be there , head for the MAKE POVERTY HISTORY rally in Edinburgh on July 2nd


call at this web site for more information by clicking on above /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[jimboaw]

Nice idea but Capitalism's motto is "Be wealthy tomorrow" and in order to achieve that goal we take advantage of the "starving masses" That they are not your next door neighbour makes it just a little more palatable.

 

[boatmike]

I could make my own poverty history if I sold the boat........
You could always sell yours and send the money to Mr Mugabwe.....

 

[catmandoo]

At least I did not shake hands with him

 

[catmandoo]

I think it is called "turning a blind eye "

 

[Joe_Cole]

Very laudable aspirations, but I do have reservations about throwing money at problems. Corruption is obviously a potential difficulty and so is poor management; badly thought out projects can soak up a lot of cash and produce little. Other than woolly claims that "We'll do something to solve this", I have seen little to say what is proposed to ensure that these problems are addressed.

I am NOT saying "Don't do it", I am saying that we should go into this type of thing with our eyes open. Big ideas like this can, too often, end up with people effectively not planning anything and then waking up one day saying, "Now we've got all this money what can we spend it on?"

A different situation, but throwing money at MG Rover over the years produced little!

Incidentally, I have no intention of wearing one of those dreadful wrist bands which seem to be more to do with saying "Look at me, I'm a caring, sharing person". Yuck!

 

[snowleopard]

It of course sounds a good idea. Unfortunately the general perception is that aid money ends up in the pockets of a few thugs like Mugabe.

Tear Fund does a good job of injecting useful aid at a local level but that can only work at a small scale where it isn't enough to tempt the warlords to grab it. The big organisations who ship aid in bulk are all too often making the rulers rich and the poor no better off.

Yes, we need to put pressure on governments to make dealings with 3rd world producers fairer though the chances of public opinion overcoming powerful vested interests are minimal - look at the US near-monopoly of banana production.

The reason this campaign will never achieve a fraction of its objectives is that it will not tackle the root cause of the poverty - local wars. As long as we say 'internal politics are none of our business' we might as well say the consequences are none of our business.

Pre-war Iraq was a classic case. The oil-for-food programme funded not relief for the people but building of palaces for Saddam and his friends from Tikrit.

So I think the West has 3 options:

1. Acknowledge that what goes on within 3rd world countries is outside our control and leave them to sort themselves out.

2. Provide aid and wring our hands when it doesn't change anything.

3. Act as world policeman and put a stop to local wars and corruption.

All these have been tried. The only one that came anywhere near working was No. 3 and it was abandoned because it was tainted with racism and exploitation (the British Empire, among others).

What is needed is a re-think of 3rd world aid, not fine slogans.

 

[Sgeir]

I really hope they do Make Poverty History, but suspect that they won't. Hope I'm proven wrong. Well done to Catmandoo for raising it.

Looks like July will be pandemonium - the heid honchos won't fly into Edinburgh (security) so they'll be using Prestwick (is that Starboard's annual leave cancelled?).

Meanwhile, we'll have (according to The Herald) SURFACE-TO-AIR missiles and between 1200 and 1500 soldiers and Royal Marines are being drafted in to bolster security at key Scottish sites during the G8 summit in July.
Special forces, including the SAS counter-revolutionary warfare squadron's sniper teams, are also likely to be deployed amid fears terrorists may try to infiltrate the 200,000 anti-capitalist protesters who are expected to converge on central Scotland from all over the world.
A quick-reaction flight of missile-armed Tornado F3 fighter aircraft is to be on 24-hour standby at RAF Leuchars to intercept and, if necessary, shoot down aircraft straying into an exclusion zone around the main conference site at Gleneagles Hotel.
Together with 10,000 civilian police – some from English forces – the military contingents will help guard heads of state such as George Bush, the US president, and Tony Blair, the prime minister, while the July 6-8 summit is held in the Perthshire hills.
The 550 marines of the fleet protection group have also been tasked with providing a final layer of defence against demonstrators who it is thought are planing to lay siege to the Royal Navy's Faslane submarine base and stage a separate protest against nuclear weapons as a diversion from the main event.

Me? I'll be away sailing hopefully. Might avoid the Clyde though.

 

[boatmike]

The problem here is one of concience. Personally I dont have one. I belong to a capitalist state and have worked my b*****s off to get where I am. If you want to really eliminate poverty you first have to define it and eliminate it's causes. Redistributing wealth is a naive socialist concept that does not work and removes incentive from both those who pay for it and those who receive it.
Having worked in the Far East, Africa, and other places I have seen real poverty first hand. I have also seen the funds ploughed in by the western world embezzled by local war lords and dictators. Solve that first. Also remember that many cultures don't have a work ethic. Give them hand outs and they will spend them and then put their hand out for more.
In Tanzania an aid worker told me: Give an African a fish and you will feed him for a day. Teach him to fish and the lazy bugger will sit on the side of the lake and go to sleep.... Not far wrong I am afraid.....
The basic truth is though that you can't do it by "giving" people anything at all. There are too many poor people in the world. You can help by educating them to do something for themselves though if they are free of tyrrany and willing to learn. Most of the worlds poor are neither free or willing unfortunately and all we can do is avoid exploiting them. Now THATS another story!!

 

[Joe_Cole]

Much of what you say is correct, but I'm not sure what your conclusion is.

If you are effectively saying "I'm all right, Jack", then I fundamentally disagree. If, as I hope you are, you are saying that we've got to work bloody hard to make sure that we get this right, but throwing money at it alone will not solve the problem, then I fully agree. Anyhow it is in our interests to get it right; succesful markets in under developed countries mean bigger markets for us.

Sorry, I'm not being awkward. I'm just not sure where you are going with your comments.

PS. And I don't believe you don't have a conscience. Deep down under that rough, tough exterior there's a pussy cat fighting to get out /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[trouville]

Thats post really paints a true image of the african problem,another thing is that africans are raceist in the extream! They will kill someone from the wrong tribe,a

woman are treated like cattle, and can be legaly beaten, and even to death if they take the pill!!(kenya)

Just look at Zimbarbwie! the food basket of africa now another basket case.Even befor. residents would pay ever increasing taxes for local road repairs,which would go into the pocket of the officals,then the same residents would have to pay a private company they formed to do the work.

In most african contries the balcks dont want black rulers

 

[Joe_Cole]

[ QUOTE ]
In most african contries the balcks dont want black rulers

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to know if you can support that claim.

 

[catmandoo]

Yes all that is true however the issue is what we as individuals can do . The democratic process allows us to lobby our politicians to put pressure on those who have the power of change . If we dont make our voices heard then those in power will think we are indifferent. One stick is weak but a bundle is strong , You are one voice but you are eloquent .10 of people like you represents a big shout

A market economy in those countries as Joe Cole says benefits us too .

it is goverment subsidies in rich countries which kills trade in poor countries. It is local pride that refuses to acknowledge that AIDS is a social problem in some places as result of tribal practices . And it is indifference and inaction of those that could help by speaking out that lets the situation lie as it is

Do we want the world a better place ?

YES YES YES

 

[snowleopard]

we would all be better off if 3rd world poverty were eliminated. the only way in the long run to do that is to restrain those 3rd world rulers who through greed, megalomania and tribal hatred cause the poverty.

unfortunately the merest suggestion of intervention gets you labelled as a warmonger. and the likes of mugabe can laugh at us because they know that no-one will lift a finger to stop them.

 

[catmandoo]

You dont necessarily need to use force . Political pressure from and on neighbours is a start. These people are local power groups with money invested in banks abroad . A freeze and visa restrictions would also be good levers. Hit them where it hurts in their own personal pockets

Incidentally its not just 3rd world leaders that want a quick buck . it wasnt altruism that drove the perpetrators of the foiled takeover in West Africa . Some well known Brits were involved I understand

 

[boatmike]

Come on Leopard. Show your spots. We both know the only possible solution to the problem is your third alternative of policing the world, but who is going to do it? There are clearly issues that have to be addressed here. The first is motivation. Nothing is ever done for purely altruistic reasons. The reason the French (in particular) objected to removing Saddam was that they were making lots of money out of him and have now had their paws kicked out of the treacle tin.....
World poverty is only one issue. The planets eco-structure and environment is another. We are blundering forward towards a self imposed armageddon in less than 100 years if we don't stop pollution. Everyone is agreed but we do nothing because we (America in particular) don't percieve it to be to our immediate advantage. So the only solutions that could work are in the hands of the most powerful nation in the world who are run my a guy put there by the oil companies to protect their interests and supported by a load of born again Christians who would really dearly love to kill all the Muslims.... And then Joe Cole asks me for a conclusion? Joe mate, the conclusion is we are stuffed! No one cares. Or rather those that do have no power.
There is a motto above the door of the Royal Artillery Mess that sums it up, GOD FIGHTS ON THE SIDE WITH THE BIGGEST GUNS. The man with the biggest guns is George Bush. If thats not a formula for abject dispair I don't know what is!

 

[catmandoo]

Well like you a lot of people dont think the Iraq war was a big success big guns and all.

Succes some might say for America's hold on world oil reserves and maintenance of cheap prices at home; but not to make the world a better place.

Abject Despair does no one any good . Eventually you will want to come out of your hole and do something


Its ordinary people that have the power to change things if they act together

There is really only one way


treat everyone as you would treat your self
forgive your enemy

A lot of people think this way so why not join them to build a strong moral force to convince others to join and pressurise those that have power . MAKE POVERTY HISTORY

 

[boatmike]

I respect your social concience but share neither your optimism or belief in people power. I do treat others as I would hope to be treated myself and I can honestly say that even after 62 years on this planet I don't seem to have made many enemies to forgive even if I am getting more like Victor Meldrew every day. So keep up the pressure on George Bush please do. I am sure he is listening and God is on his side....... At least that is what he tells us so it must be true....

 

[boatmike]

Oh and by the way, treating others as I would like to be treated myself means telling them when I think they are mistaken so please feel free to disagree with me when I say the removal of Saddam Hussain was the right thing to do. Unfortunately like a lot of military solutions performed by the good old US of A they can't organise a piss up in a brewery and shot themselves in the foot because there was no planning beyond removing him. As soon as they allowed the pillage and looting to start they lost the real battle for the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people. They are applying the same degree of acumen to solving world poverty and global warming. None of this gives me cause for optimism but if you can find a solution good luck. Vote for Catmandoo! Can't do any worse than anyone else.....

 

[snowleopard]

i'm greatly puzzled by those who say iraq should have been left alone and the people are worse off now than they were before yet i haven't heard a single voice calling for the reinstatement of saddam. surely the corollary of saying the war was wrong would be to advocate restoring the status quo ante?