Mainsail wont drop

[pcatterall]

Trying to devise a system so I can raise and the lower the main main from the wheelhouse especially as I am often single handed.
Raising is not the biggest problem though I think I will have to cut a hole in the front of my beloved wheelhouse. The alternative being complicated halyard runs out to and along the side deck.
The main always seems to need a bit of tugging to get it down, no big problem when you are at the mast but something I would need to sort out if I am to work it from the wheelhouse.
Is it possible to rig some sort of line to encourage the sail down?
I will be fitting lazy jacks
Any ideas/advice welcome as always!

 

[flaming]

Fitting a downhall is possible, but by far your best bet (if you can stand the cost) is to upgrade the sliders into a full ball bearing main track. The main will then just drop.

 

[cliff]

Don't forget to slacken the kicker and tighten the topping lift before trying to drop the main.......
--------------------

"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
sailroom <span style="color:red">The place to auction your previously loved boatie bits</span>

 

[Danny Jo]

Freestyle has halyards etc led back to the cockpit and a fully battened main with Fredricksen ball bearing cars. When I release the halyard 80% of the main drops into the stack pack like damp washing into a laundry basket. The remaining 20% has to be pulled down by hand, because there is not enough weight in it to overcome the friction in the blocks and mast fairlead.

I'm unconvinced of the overall benefit of lines led back to the cockpit. It seems more than twice as much work hoisting the main from the cockpit as is required to hoist it at the mast. (I usually go forward to check the luff tension anyway.) And if I have any reefs in (single line reefing), there is absolutely no way I can shake them out without going on deck to free up the lines. It may work better with expensive low-friction blocks, but with my present set-up I find myself longing for the simplicity of a winch at the mast and conventional slab reefing.

Sorry, just seen that I have gone a bit beyond the answer to your question (use ball-bearing cars), but had to get the rest off my chest.

 

[Jonny_H]

Agree - we have a fully battened main with Frederickson carrs and a stack pack cover. Single handed you can just release the halyard and the main falls on its own and flakes into the cover - easy peasy /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The Frederickson carrs (as with Harken etc) aren't cheap (infact I needed some new self lubricating ball bearings for mine - each carr has about 40 ball bearings - they cost £20 for 25 ball bearings!!) but well worth it!

Jonny

 

[William_H]

I use a home made feeder fashioned from a bit of SS rod welded to a small plate rivetted into the place where the sail track was, as a guide to help the mainsail bolt rope into the mast track. I t is bent into the shape of horns with loops on the end set about 90degrees apart so they both guide the bolt rope sideways as well as pull it forward into the track. It works well with mostly only pulling on the halyard form the cockpit.

Now pulling down I would suggest that you fit reefing lines to the forward reefing eyelets with leads back to the cockpit. That will get the first 1/3 of the sail down. From there I can only suggest a light line to the headboard to forcefully pull the sail down. I suspect that pulling from the top may just bunch the sail up jambing it but you should try it. If it does jamb then pulling at the deepest reef will help to pull it down from a lower point. Of course slugs on the sail will help (you probably have them anyway) and from there it is a question of minimising friction both in the sail slugs and the halyard system. good luck olewill

 

[charles_reed]

Don't know if you've a fully battened main (if you haven't lazyjacks won't solve the problem of single-handed takedown).

Coming head to wind is advisable, if the wind is light and seas smooth.

Using a dry lubricant (PTFE) helps, as does changing slides from those awful nylon things to something like Bainbridges Oilite slides.

I've found that a downhaul is of little use and means you have to be at the base of the mast in any case.

Probably the most effective answer is a proprietary luff-groove and ball-bearing batten cars. The cost of that has put me off.

However the only real answer is to have a roller furling mast - that is a genuine single-handers' solution and saves hauling the main up at the start of every sail.

It does mean an appreciable loss of performance as well as a major capital expenditure.

 

[bigwow]

My fully battened main, with no expensive cars and with all lines lead back to the cockpit, drops like a ton of bricks. The sheeve in the mast head is sprayed with teflon once a year and spins like a top, perhaps that helps.

 

[charles_reed]

rigging lines etc

When I had the oversize main made, for the Med, I needed a 4th reef.

This I fitted as an external, single-line reef using the biggest of the Harken Airblocks. It's proved by far the easiest reef to put in though there is a different technique required to the standard slab reefing.
It's proved trouble free over 4 seasons and about 15,000nm of single-handed sailing.

The Sailman 4000 batten ends have far too much bearing area to drop easily (they didn't have the intermediate 3000 and 3500 at the time I ordered and have a habit of losing the tensioning screws). They always have to be pulled down - I've found using the reefing pennants the best way of getting the main down. The last part, above the 4th reef always gives rise to curses and broken finger-nails.

On the other hand the lightweight Rutgerson ends + Oilite slides on the other main could be dropped easily on any point of sail, which was a great benefit to a single-hander.

I'm totally convinced of the value of single line reefing, it's far faster, infinitely safer and as easy as using in-mast roller reefing. It does make for a cat's cradle of lines, and needs very careful design (look on the Harken website for ideas).

I shall be converting at least one other reef to single line (after which I'll run out of cockpit area for clutches).

 

[pcatterall]

Re: rigging lines etc

Thanks guys, plenty of good advice to think about. Wes, the sail is fully battened. I did consider investing in 'proper' sail cars but would hate to spend a lot of dosh and still have to haul the sail down.
I try to get the boat nice and slow into the wind and let the auto pilot steady up on that course but by the time I have hauled myself out of the wheelhouse and up to the mast everything goes haywire, 'Him up there' is clearly watching and having a laugh.
I guess that when I am two handed just the addition of the lazy jacks will be a help as the crew can just concentrate on getting the sail down withought trying to manage billowing sail and ties. (I can stay nice and warm in the wheelhouse!!)
On the subject of lazyjacks there was a really good idiots guide with diagrams but, despite a search, I can't locate it. Does anyone know where it is??
Again, many thanks. Peter

 

[blackbeard]

[ QUOTE ]

... And if I have any reefs in (single line reefing), there is absolutely no way I can shake them out without going on deck to free up the lines. It may work better with expensive low-friction blocks, but with my present set-up I find myself longing for the simplicity of a winch at the mast and conventional slab reefing. ...
.... but had to get the rest off my chest.

[/ QUOTE ]
Single line reefing. I have a very simple system (on a Hunter 245) and it was a total PAIN! and I used to finish up standing on a cockpit locker lid hauling the lines through by hand, which is dangerous and, well, unacceptable. But you don't have to accept it.
Basically:
lines (about 10 mm) were far too heavy
there was too much friction, chiefly when the lines ran through cringles, and this added hugely to the friction already present from heavy lines running through sheaves barely big enough.
So.
Being a parsimonious *!, ferreted around in rope reel ends bargain bins and found some cheap line around 5 or 6 mm, some of it even Kevlar
also some small ball-bearing blocks (not too pricey) and had the lines running through these rather than just through the cringles
and fiddled around getting the attachment points near the boom end in just the right place,
and now have a system that WORKS! not perfectly but good enough. Great to be able to reef and un-reef efficiently and quickly from the cockpit.
Back to topic. Dropping the main. Haven't found a way of doing this from the cockpit, main comes halfway down and that's it. However, if the reefing system is OK (you would need to be able to put in a REALLY DEEP reef but that's another topic) the only time you need to lower the main completely is in harbour so a quick dash to the coachroof is OK. You would need to tie the main down anyway so going on deck is necessary anyway.
I think. Until the next refit season's bright ideas.

 

[Danny Jo]

Thanks. My reefing lines are 12mm, I think. I don't think it's possible to replace the in-boom lengths without knocking the rivets out of the boom-end fitting. Friction in the cringles isn't too bad, but the sheaves in the boom and on the deck seem to be the source of most of it. The gear is 19 years old, so I suppose it's not surprising. I tried replacing the turning blocks at the foot of the mast last year, but it didn't make much difference. So long as they remain OK for putting reefs in from the cockpit, their replacement will remain some way down the priority list.

 

[oldharry]

When I bought my last boat she had been laid up for several years, and although I had cleaned off the mast and track, the slides were very sticky, and both raising and lowering the main was tricky. not wanting to have the mast down again the local swindlery sold me an aerosol tin of 'Mast Track Lubricant', I sprayed the slides - perfect result! And it lasted the entire season. It never stuck again.

Might be worth a try?

 

[DaveS]

When I fitted my new main last year there was a lot of friction. I fixed it using a small sponge impregnated with Tesco's cheap equivalent of "Mr. Sheen" pulled up and down the slot. Under £1.

 

[Hardley]

I use a light line secured to the top of main sail, lead thru pulley at mast heel then lead aft to cockpit thru turning block, fitted in boat, never have any trouble getting main, or come to that jib down, using this method and much safer than going on deck when single handed.

 

[pcatterall]

Thanks for all the tips guys.
I will
fit the lazyjacks
further lubricate the slides
look at leading the reefing lines back
Try a line to to the top and if this causes bunching try it gradually further down.
Thanks again.
Peter