Main sail furling

It seems there are an awful lot of "idiots" out there listening to salesmen. YM this month report that 70% of all new boats sold in Europe are ordered with in mast reefing. That's a huge number of yachtsmen/women that don't know what they are talking about. I fear, rather like the old Guinness advert, many cases of criticism are down to, "I don't like it, 'cos I havn't tried it"!!

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My boat came with "In Mast" as standard. With young kids and nervous wife, I didn't pay the extra to have Slab Reefing. When the supplied cheap n nasty main caused jamming after a couple of years, I changed to MaxiRoach. Yes it sets well and is a good compromise. So I bought the vertically battened Genoa as well. I've had to work hard to get the right balance with that but it's impressive. Although not being able to "drop it" during a problem, is a worry.

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Hi, when i got molly she had a mainsail reefing system and the ropes went up the boom to a pulley but i cannot remember how they went, one was red and one was blue coming out of the boom at the back and then going up the sail to an eye and then across the sail towards the mast. Can you suggest how I can get the system back to what it was using a picture if pos, I have tried several different ways to no avail
regards Nick

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Slab reefing

Given the choice I would go for single line, slab reefing, I'd never appricated how easy reefing can be. No trying to find the hook on the gooseneck with sail flogging around you, missing the hook as someone in the cockpit pulls, only for the hook to go through the luff (yep it's happened). The single line means you don't have to go on deck, and it's easy to explain to someone new to sailing how the system works and they can just pick up the routine after a few reefs.

I've sailed with in mast furling, had it jam lightly, it was a real pain to sort out, I could never get the sail to set nicely. There was also the nagging feeling that if it really jammed while going in or going out....then what?

In-boom reefing means you have to have a really big boom and even at 40 ft it's still a BIG boom. You also have a fixed vang/kicker to keep the angle of the boom constant

With a fully battened main, it sets well gives you more sail area and it can all be reefed from the comfort of the companionway. Sound perfect eh?

Nearly, the only thing to watch is that the lines don't chafe against the blocks on the sail when it's reefed...Had a line chafe through, but it was the no 1 reef, had full main until we we sorted it out....if the wind did get up we could have gone down to the 2nd reef...took some time to re reeve the line, but nothing that put me off the system. The other drawback is the amount of rope you get left over....but this just me being picky :)

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Re: Slab reefing

We have a 2 line system which I prefer to single line because there is less friction and less to go wrong and no blocks on the sail to chafe. The tack reef lines have no load on them when pulled down with the halyard let off, so don't need a winch to pull them through the clutch. The clew reef lines are then led directly through the boom with no additional internal tackles to go wrong or cause friction, if the boom end is lifted during reefing (gas kicker or topping lift) the tack reefs come in easily with a winch. We have 3 reefs and all are 2 line and done from the safety and comfort of the cockpit, even whilst sheltered under the sprayhood. The 2 line system is also easier when shaking out a reef as well I think, much less friction again. There are twice as many lines of course but as each is only half the length there is the same amount of line in total.

The biggest thing for me though is performance. I guess if you buy a bigger boat it will be faster anyway and what you have not had you don't miss if it comes with an in-mast system, just never go sailing in company with a sistership with a fully battened sail if you don't like being left behind!



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Re: Slab reefing

I'm no expert on this but....there just seems to be too much that can go wrong with an in-mast system..Just doesn't feel right to me.

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Re: Slab reefing

Well yes, although the mechanics of the systems have been pretty well sorted nowadays but the sail itself is a contributory factor if not the main cause of jams. Original equipment sails are notoriously bad even those with designer labels, they may be strong but they are certainly not stretchless and that is where IMO the problems start.

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Gettin better

In mast furling is getting better, a lot of the boats we test don't have any problems during the test, but it should be remembered we are testing brand new yachts.

Even the older yachts we test have few problem, but all you need is one problen at the wrong time and you wish you were up a creek, instead of open water and unable to reef

The only positive note I have on in-mast furling is that you can sail with exactly the amount of sail area, where as with slab reefing you loose a slab of the main, with furling you loose what you want to. We tested 2 boats Dufour 36 classics one aft cock pit, slab reefing....one centre cockpit in mast furling, and due to the weather, just too high end of 1 reef and too low for a 2nd reef the in-mast boat was able to sail within it's limits and was slightly faster, but 7-10 knots more (or Less) of breeze and it would have been a different story

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Re: Gettin better

We sailed our old W33 with FB main AND mizzen alongside another W33 with in-mast main and normal mizzen, wind mostly F3 occ F4 and we left them so far behind they turned on the engine to catch up. That kind of wind is nice to sail in, shame to have to motor because the sails are inefficient!

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Re: Gettin better

For all the pros and cons of each, I'll repeat what I said earlier, 70% (seventy!) of all new boats sold in Europe are sold with in mast reefing specified. Now that's an awful lot of sailors going in one direction - are they all wrong?? Strikes me it's only a matter of time until the figure becomes 90%.

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Re: Gettin better

That reflects perhaps the size of the boats, there are few below 35ft these days it seems, and the fact that many new boat sales are actually to newcomers to cruising boats. Many of the boats sold are to people taking money out of their property as a first time buy, or are retiring and taking a lump sum from the pension. It is easier maybe to convince wifey that it all very easy with in-mast gear and as I said elsewhere what you haven't had (in the way of performance) you don't miss, maybe one reason why you see so many boats motoring when others are sailing. In your case I believe you are are mobo convert, so it might be understandable to choose the perceived easier safer in-mast option. Another factor is that the importers from the big builders are ordering way ahead, you don't actually get to spec your boat yourself as they will persuade you that you need the spec that THEY have chosen if you want that spring delivery date....and in-mast, like big stern cabins, island beds and big galleys sells boats to wifeys, who are seen to be the decision makers.




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FWIW

Throw my hands up right away and say I've never yet sailed on a boat with in-mast furling.

Agree that it's becoming almost the norm on new boats in Europe. Good reason is it makes a boat much easier to handle, which is a good thing. When the wind blows hard, the crew needs to act fast and the ability to quickly reduce sail adds a lot of confidence to a short-handed boat (such as husband and wife).

I can always romp past a boat with in-mast main unless it's flying a kite. My personal feeling is that I'd rather have speed than convenience, especially on a longer passage. In light winds, I would curse in-mast for it's flat sail shape.

Each to his own - there's no wrong and right.

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Re: Gettin better

I certainly set out to make life as easy for us as possible. When we ordered our boat a couple of years ago, there was certainly one already in the Opal build schedule which was allocated to us - however, we had the say in all of the options available. One thing Bavaria do is make the basic boat specification just that, very basic, allowing the individual to spec to their requirment. Now that may have changed in the last couple of years 'cos I know Bavaria's build capacity has recently doubled, and like the car industry, when cars are being pushed out of factories at an enormous rate, dealers are required to take finished (and ready specced) examples, and sell on these "benefits" to the customer.

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Re: Gettin better

We were looking at a Jeanneau SO 40 new via Sea Ventures and they wanted us to take teak decks (I didn't want them) the charter double aft cabin version (we wanted the owners version) and so on - to the extent that they eventually offered these options free of charge, the teak deck was £6,000 I think too. They wouldn't understand that we didn't WANT them, nothing to do with their cost, but of course the spec was decided months before, all that was changeable was anything they could do after delivery. This is bit like the Model T Ford, you can have any colour you like as long as it is black or in this case you wait 2 years for it.

It is nevertheless a personal choice, each to their own.

Hope your back is getting better!

Robin

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Re: FWIW

"I can always romp past a boat with in-mast main unless it's flying a kite. "

I think there are as many possible reasons for that as there have been responses to this question. A bit of a hollow statement unless all other factors are equalised.

You ought to try a well setup one - on a cruising boat the difference really isn't that much.

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Re: FWIW

As I bit of a newbie, I understand the concept of reefing and have sailed on a yacht with an in-mast system, but have yet to get my head around slab reefing. Any good links with graphics / animations out there?

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Re: FWIW

I would have to dispute that although Tome's comment was a bit all encompassing.

In strong winds, by that I mean winds strong enough to reduce sail, I would agree there is little difference if any, EXCEPT upwind when the slab reefed main would point better and make less leeway. The in-mast sail will need reefing later than a normal or fully battened one as it in effect starts off with the first reef in place.

In light winds there is no contest, a boat with a normal main will romp away and one with a fully battened one will have the afterburner on by comparison. Upwind it will be especially marked, but off the wind almost as bad. There is neither the sail area nor the shape in the sail required to get the most out of a light wind.

That people say there is no noticeable difference when cruising relate IMO perhaps to the fact that much use of engines is made in light winds, if the speed drops then on goes the donk and there certainly is no difference then!

That is not to say there isn't a place for such systems and certainly as boat size increases for a small crew handling even hoisting and stowing a heavy main gets harder although I can pull our 400sq ft FB main on a 41ft boat up easily. It might be different to a degree too if the boat was designed to take a taller in-mast rig to regain some of the area lost over a conventional one, but that would imply additional ballast and/or a deeper keel to compensate.

It is of course a personal choice. You can have (we have) slab reefing systems that are every bit as easy and safe to use all done from the cockpit, but many do require a trip to the mast and in-mast removes that need. My choice is to keep the performance and sail more, motor less.

Robin



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I think for the vast majority of boats inmast reefing is the way to go. Unlike other posters I know stacks of circumnavigation boats with this system.

I suspect the danger of it jamming are related to the quality of the build of the system but have no real knowlage of all the types available. On a Bavaria I sailed for a couple of weeks the system required someone to go to the mast to move a clutch when de-reefing - I am not sure that the mains set so well - going to windward, being loose footed.

I converted my boat from boom roller to slab and have been very pleased with the result. Having said that for 99% of people cruising, frequently short handed, husband and wife, it really is a very good way of shortening sail and you put in or shake out a reef very easily - I think most boats in the Caribbean have in mast furling...

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