Main sail furling

[Danny_Labrador]

It was pointed out to me at the Southampton Boat show that the majority of cruising yachts now featured some from of main sail furling system – “just look around”. I did and they did!

To furl or not to furl that is the question?
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In mast furling pro and cons - weight high up when furled and if it does go wrong you have to climb up and fix it. Also sail shape is not all that one hope for - lack of battens etc.…but means you don’t have to go on deck in bad weather.

In boom furling pro and cons – expense, but can take battens reliability? But means you don’t have to go on deck in bad weather

Above all theoretical

Anyone with real life experience? What manufacturers are best?

Is it a good idea in general ?



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[Sybarite]

I like the idea of in-boom reefing. However it is indispensable to keep the boom horizontal. I met a boat where the boom strut was broken and they had a lot of trouble reefing properly.

I would probably go though for full length battens and a lazy bag.

John

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[clouty]

IMHO in mast furling is strictly for fair weather sailors - and who knows what the weather will sling at you - as they are subject, with incorrect leads or incorrcect tension on outhaul and halyard to jamming in the mast usually about two thirds of the way up. I have repaired several with this fault. Tis what I do for a living.

Slab reefing, perhaps with single reef lines lead back, is the only way I would go.

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[Robin]

Quite right, slab reefing every time simple and efficient. We have a 2 line system though on a 400 sq ft fully battened sail, 3 reefs with all 6 reef lines back to coachroof winches and clutches. There is much less friction with a 2 line system and single line sytems are mostly restricted to 2 reefs only, not enough room in the boom for the blocks/lines for the 3rd one. We sail just 2 of us in all weathers and can reef quickly, easily and safely from the cockpit, even under the sprayhood in the dry!

We saw a mainsail jam on a test sail of a Westerly Oceanlord 41, just as described by Clouty and it was a real pain to sort it out in a F5 in the shelter of Plymouth harbour - above that and out at sea in real waves doesn't bear thinking about.

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[Sans Bateau]

How do you get a decent bend in the mast with in mast furling?

Fully battened main, lazy jacks and single line reefing, you can get a reef in as you go through a tack!

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[Iota]

I have a Hood Vertec inmast furling main, it is made from Vecram cloth & fully battened. I commissioned the boat in 2001 and as yet have not had any jamming problems. In fact I am well pleased with the system and have used it in all kinds of conditions. The mast does have some bend on as it is nominally a 15/16th fractional rig. I think if the rig is set up properly and the sail 'fits' properly the problems are marginal. I heard the same naysayers about in-mast saying the same things about furling genoas when we bought our first boat in '86!!!!

I would suggest you talk to a few recognised sail makers and form your own view.

Iota

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[rwoofer]

You don't need bend as you simply reef a little bit more.

Must admit I was very anti in-mast furling, being an ex-racer and having had bad experiences with charter boats.

Bought current boat with it it (because it was standard) and was prepared to change the rig. Decided I would give it a go, put a bit of effort in, got it properly set up with the rights sails and I have to say I'm a convert.

I reckon I go out sailing more because of the lack of hassle.

The right setup for me was Pentex triradial sails with short vertical battens on an absolutely dead straight mast (v. important that last point). No loss of sail area and great sail shape.

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[nicho]

A number of years ago, all the same arguments were heard about roller reefing headsails - how many now don't have them?? With regard to in mast mains, they would not be high on the list of those who race, but for cruising, they are oh! so simple to use, and should not jam not jam if reefed properly. Mine's from Selden, supplied on the boat from new (optional extra), and weighs only a handful of kilos more than the slab reefed standard set up. Yes, I'm very much a cruiser, and inexperienced to boot, and am not so enthusiastic about the "add on" variety. It certainly makes my life a whole lot simpler, as does the bowthruster.......oh no! what have I said!. No doubt in line for another tirade about my brilliant friend up the front end!!!

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[toad]

This subject will run for a long time,do a search,you either love them or hate them.I had Easy Reef in mast reefing on my last boat and had no problems in the five years that i had it.As soon as i get enough bottle tops this boat will have it fitted.

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[bluestone]

I have inherited in mast reefing and thought it was a point against the boat when I bought it 3 years ago. It is very easy to use and in a sunny climate it has instant UV protection.
I cannot imagine a jam while reefing but I have had a couple of jams unfurling it. No need to go up the mast though. Ten minutes feeding in and out with tension on sorts it out. I think the reason for this is because the sail is 15 years old and the cloth has lost its stiffness. Fair enough really.
I am very interested in the vertical batten systems by Hood and Maxiroach to get more shape and roach in the sails. can anyone comment on these, do they set well or just add chafe?.

<hr width=100% size=1>Martin

 

[trouville]

I agree with the slab reefing it mostly works. But i tend to use my old old roller main reefing --around the boom--- In the med its quite easy and dose.
I met a couple of times an irritating supposidly deaf American (odd lot) who had fitted headsail furling system on the mast mounting it from mast top to boom and claimed to have used it for years going around the world.
It looked as if it belonged and i thought i might try it as well though £480 to experiment? plus he said he had his mains made for the system.

<hr width=100% size=1>liveaboard

 

[Ships_Cat]

It depends on the sailing you anticipate doing. On one hand if only sailing in the local sheltered bay and it is not a serious race boat then in mast is probably a great idea. On the opposite hand if you anticipate circumnavigating the globe through the Southern Ocean then in mast would be a foolish idea. Most of us fit somewhere in between.

I am sure that the responses you have gotten to your question are genuine opinions but keep in mind that the responders' level of attraction to in mast is directly related to the conditions that they sail in or the type of sailing they do - they mostly do not, unfortunately, clarify those.

I sail in an area and manner where the distance between refuges and uncertainty of conditions is such that one has to expect to be sometimes caught in very heavy weather and sea conditions. I would not have in mast if it was given to me. There again, if I did not venture outside sheltered waters I would have an entirely different view.

John

<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.

 

[jimboaw]

What next?
reefing system linked to wind instruments? Electric winches do the job. "The skipper" sits below in front of the radar and his laptop on which his electronic charts dispay his position and heading as well as his ETA ? . He punches a button to change course. He may as well stay home and play video games.
PS I love my computer charting! Maybe I can stay afloat a few more years

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[Iota]

A tad patronising your reply, we sail in all conditions and have a hood inmast system. Length of paasages these days is restricted to about 15 hours because of the dog but before 20 hours plus were the norm. I would suggest you investigate inmast more thoroughly with someone like Hood you might get a surpise. Met a couple earlier this year who have just completed a circumnavigation with in mast, how does that compare with your sailing?

Iota

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[Marsupial]

I had behind the mast main furling on a mirage, it worked fairly well when the sail was new as long as it was cut flat, when it got a bit stretched it became difficult to stow in light airs - and then needed a gale to get get it out again. At Fox's in Ipswich I watched the man from from Hood go up in a bosuns chair and cut a new sail out of an oyster mast - it had been in less than a day. But I liked the system, my SO37 had inmast furling and I liked it until one day we found that we could not get the sail to furl - and it was blowing hard. The sail had stretched and would not feed through the slot in mast - massive tension on the mian halyard cure it but the fright caused the next boat to have slab. But the slab had lazyjacks new to me, and first time out we "let go" and nothing happened, the sail was so stiff it stayed up! - its better now its "run in" but its not quite what it said on the tin. My conclusion for what its worth is that all these systems are not perfect, it depends on what sailing you do and how well you think you could cope with any of the "charateristics" of either rig.

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[Ships_Cat]

Sorry that you find it patronising but you will find that I am correct. The more independant the vessel has to be, the wider ranging it is and/or with increasing likelihood of it not being able to evade heavy weather, the less chance it will have in mast reefing.

You mention circumnavigating - we are in a country that is on the route of many circumnavigating yachts that to get here have to venture away from benign tropic/subtropic passages and I have to say that I would be hard pressed to think of any that have had in mast reefing.

As always there will be exceptions. As always, future developments in in mast reefing may change this.

John

<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.

 

[Robin]

Perhaps if you had a full sized fully battened mainsail from good cloth and well cut those 20 hour passages of old might still be nearer the dog's preferred 15! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif Just joking.

The devil is not in the mechanical design IMO it is the sail. You cannot have the same sail area, that is a geometrical fact, you cannot have the same shape in the sail and have it reef properly and not jam. So like it or not you will have to accept a loss of performance in light winds. OK so there are some new sail ideas that try and address the area problem and no doubt they are much better, but they will still fall some way short.

The jamming risk can be reduced with a decent sail cut and cloth (old and stretched is bad news) and with careful set up of the boom angle and so on, but the risk is still there. The difference with the universally accepted roller headsail is that a jammed headsail can still be dropped if fully out, or if really really wrapped can be rolled by turning the boat in multiple circles, you cannot do this with a jammed roller main, the rig is in the way.

The trade off is performance versus convenience. Like for like on identical boats the in-mast one will be slower, in light winds especially and the in-mast boat will put on more engine hours over the same sea miles. It is all down to personal choice of course and that choice will change perhaps as boat size increases. Indeed it may be the steady increase in boat sizes that spawns the in-mast systems popularity, we handle 41ft easily with slab/lazyjacks but maybe a 50 footer would be different.

Robin






<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[tcm]

yeah, sunsail usem all over, so can't be totally flimsy. Good for quick reefing and quick sailing too instead of all the poncing around.

Not as fast as a boat with slab reefing, cept it's usually people with tons and tons of gear on board who say this...

 

[BlueSkyNick]

"....you cannot do this with a jammed roller main, the rig is in the way." Whilst this is true in that you can't turn the boat in circles in the way suggest for the headsail, you can still stow the main if necessary.

I am speaking from experience of a few weeks ago when ours jammed, half in half out. We simply slackened the outhaul, and gathered the sail as best possible up to the mast and lashed it enough to motor into a mooring. Was then able to get somebody up the mast to sort it out. We were only in the Solent so no big issue, and I accept it would have been different out at sea in a strong wind.

The main point that I learned was that the inmast furling is great - as long as you follow the instructions. On the previous outing to the above, I had furled the sail with some tension on the leech line - so it was my own fault, when it wouldn't unfurl again.

The system is easy if we keep reasonable tension on the lines and ensure the topping lift as at the correct height. The golden rule is to never use the winch handle - if it seems to need it, there must be something wrong.

In general I am happy with it, which is a behind the mast add-on, as SWMBO was a novice when we bought the boat. I would still buy another boat with in-mast but must admit to a preference for slab reefing, and a stack pack.



<hr width=100% size=1>Tide and time wait for no man.

 

[Lee_Shaw]

Why bother. There's a perfectly good reefing system available in the form of slab reefing. It's much cheaper. Save your money and spend it on something necessary is my tuppence ha'penny worth.

Don't listen to the salesman - he wants sell you an expensive extra.

<hr width=100% size=1>Pretend this is a link to a website.