mac or slug - which is uglier

[Woodlouse]

let me ask you a serious question though

and I do hope you don't mind me asking because what I need is a boat that more people would like to likely to watch or be interested in

if a bloke was doing KTL in the same type of boat you have - would you follow it more closely

or would it be better if it was an old wooden classic?

The Cenataur has the advantage of a big fan base and it does not upset people

A mac has an even more massive fan base

- but it certainly seems to upset the sailors in some way - upset them enough to not watch KTL - dunno


Dylan

PS- what is wrong with water ballast - the slug has a few gallons of it slopping around its capacious keel box most of the time. Its a self filling system - all I have to do is to regulalry pump it out

Dylan

I'm afraid I'm the wrong person to as to what might make KTL more appealing to a wider audience. For me personally an old classic with character might make it more appealing, but I am about as snobbish as it is possible to be when it comes to boats and if you did have such a craft I'd be more interested in that than the sailing you were actually doing in it.

Anyway, if you want to know what I think I'd say that trying to chase a MacGregor 26 audience would be a folly. The vast majority of owners are not the sort who really enjoy crawling through ditches observing nature, as is demonstrated by the fact that most Mac26's have a 70hp outboard strapped to the back.

As for water ballast, there's nothing exactly wrong with it, but forget to fill the tank and you'll be standing on the topsides in very little wind.

 

[Woodlouse]

One way you could also look at it is this:

If you were making a programme about a road trip to some lovely out of the way places do you think you'd get a wider audience from doing the trip in a Morris Traveller or a Ford Focus?

Lots more people own Fords, but I doubt they've any interest in watching them on the telly.

 

[idpnd]

What happened to the impeccable socialist credentials? Tsts Losing the moral high ground there! Your fans are emotionally attached to the Slug because it embodies KTL's uniqueness: The sort of down to earth, nature and solitude loving sailing most of us do, which is rarely represented by the sailing mags - they cater to the lucrative (in terms of advertising) but small audience of carbon fibre boat ponces..

On the other hand, there's little risk of you getting a 200' Perini Navy; if a more liveable boat translates into more time on location, filming more, that's a good thing for us KTL junkies

Your idea of attracting fans of a certain class certainly seems to work for the Mingling simple sailor..

 

[dylanwinter]

A mac sponsored 26

Since you asked, I really don't think the type of boat would put me off watching KTL unless it was some sort of all-singing, all-dancing modern thingummyjig (a bit like my new boat). For me the fascination (apart from watching you freezing your gentleman's equipment off) is seeing the sort of ditch-crawling I can't do with a fixed keel that's taller than I am. But, there's also added charm in the fact that you're doing it in the sort of boat and on the sort of budget that many people could manage - the antithesis of the 'all yachtsmen are rich, all yachts are luxurious' vibe that seems to be commonly accepted by unyachted readers of the popular press.

so you would not quit watching if I took up the sponsorship deal with Mac then?

I could get everywhere with a Mac that I can get with the slug - and I would certainly be sailing it in much shallower places than most people can reach.

I love the idea of overtaking a speeding mobo to remonstrate with them about unnecessary wash. I have always thought that hypocrisy is a fascinating humna trait.

On the other hand I have to admit that I am stupidly proud of the purity of the concept that the journey is being paid for by the hard earned cash of my fellow sailors. This select band of 1000 odd men who have willingly stumped up bits of their hard earned sailing budget to watch my films

- no sponsorship - no big bottomless TV budget - no bosses telling me what I can and cannot film - the only people I have to respond to are the viewers.

But, the idea was that the project should become self sustaining -

I am not expecting it to allow me to quit the day job but enough to cover itself

three years in and it is still not there and the costs are going to ramp up as I get even further from home

so now is the time to take stock.

Once the Northern winter is over both us and the americans will be stepping away from our computers and back onto our boats.

I either have to reach more people - which I might do by changing the boat - or reach more of the right sort of people - the sort of people who might like the films

but do not waste their days hanging around the forums where the films get discussed

Both tough things to do

D

 

[Searush]

I have no special "thing" against the Mac, in fact I like to see them planing past with the mast up & teh bow in the air. It is unique & interesting. But I wouldn't want my daughter to marry one . . .

Most of the Macs sold were sold in the US, so I can see where you are going, but would anyone who was interested in creek crawling & wildlife (& hated planing MoBos) ever buy a Mac26? I doubt it.

What you need is Viral advertising via fora. But not just yottie fora. Hit the nature & Eco fora, go for people who camp & do wildwoods crafts etc.

Griff Rhys Jones & Paul Heiney both sold a "Secret/ Hidden Rivers" TV series to Discovery Channel, paddling down a river in an open canoe). OK, so you ain't a "Big Name" yet, but your films are better than theirs. Maybe edit in a few local characters/ activities/ Historic buildings etc for the non-yotties. Make a series of 20 min progs with suitable breaks for ads & I would expect them to bite your hand off. Your production costs (slug care & travel apart) are not nearly as high as even a basic crew, so there should be scope for undercutting the other productions.

 

[Signed Out]

Adding fuel to the fire

Dare I throw a hunter liberty or minstrel into the mix?

You talk of them both being ugly, so is that in some strange way, desirable to you? Am I missing the point in that the ugliness is one of the selling points of KTL?

Well, my tuppence would like to suggest one of the above as being a size in between the 2, perhaps a similar sailing potential, if not better. A seperate heads, big cockpit, big bed. Sits on bottom on skegs.

And... is pretty!

Image hijacked from owners assoc- http://www.hlmoa.flyer.co.uk/

(Have I just rudely turned this into yet another "what boat" thread? Ooops).

 

[dylanwinter]

Liberty

Dare I throw a hunter liberty or minstrel into the mix?

You talk of them both being ugly, so is that in some strange way, desirable to you? Am I missing the point in that the ugliness is one of the selling points of KTL?

Well, my tuppence would like to suggest one of the above as being a size in between the 2, perhaps a similar sailing potential, if not better. A seperate heads, big cockpit, big bed. Sits on bottom on skegs.

And... is pretty!

Image hijacked from owners assoc- http://www.hlmoa.flyer.co.uk/

(Have I just rudely turned this into yet another "what boat" thread? Ooops).

I had always thought that they would be perfect for the journey

the outboard in the well is marvelous

- and having walked into £1000 worth of bills for the slugs engine last summer the idea of taking the outboard to the man who does the repairs seems very attractive


But a LIberty is around £8000 and is out of my price range - ditto a mac of course.

the choice of the slug was purely because it was a cheap small and reasonably seaworthy boat that would allow me to start the journey in 2008 rather than wait for three years while I saved up for something more suitable

I always set off with the idea that I would have the money to change boat before I got that far north of the wash

I now know that the slug would do the job - physically - but I think that emotionally for most sailors it just does not stir the right emotions

Dylan

 

[andytrombone]

so you would not quit watching if I took up the sponsorship deal with Mac then?....

Absolutely no question, if there is a sponsorship deal on the table - take it!!

I think it's unlikely that many people would STOP watching KTL because you had a free MacG rather than having to pay for everything yourself in the Slug.

As my understanding goes, KTL is about documenting the journey not the boat in which you are doing the journey.

Nice as the feelgood factor of doing it in an old ugly boat might be for some viewers, doing it in a Mac (young ugly boat?) would be just as valid, cheaper and much more comfortable for you in your frail old dotage ;-)

The advertising opportunities and increased viewer base that being sponsored by MacGregor would bring is also not to be sniffed at.........

 

[dylanwinter]

great answer

Absolutely no question, if there is a sponsorship deal on the table - take it!!

I think it's unlikely that many people would STOP watching KTL because you had a free MacG rather than having to pay for everything yourself in the Slug.

As my understanding goes, KTL is about documenting the journey not the boat in which you are doing the journey.

Nice as the feelgood factor of doing it in an old ugly boat might be for some viewers, doing it in a Mac (young ugly boat?) would be just as valid, cheaper and much more comfortable for you in your frail old dotage ;-)

The advertising opportunities and increased viewer base that being sponsored by MacGregor would bring is also not to be sniffed at.........

I agree

sadly this whole thread has been entirely hyothetical - because Mac have not offered me a boat or the money to run it with. I have not ever knowngly spoken to anyone from Macs

So,

does anyone know anyone at Macs with deep pockets

Dylan

 

[Searush]

I always liked the Liberty Cat ketch. Such a simple rig, so easy to short tack up a creek.

But they were too dear for me back then & there was never really enough room for a family of 4. Might make a nice retirement boat, but I doubt I could manage yet without the headroom & space I currently have. If they still fetch 8k, that's a lot, you can get a Pageant for 3-5k

 

[Major Catastrophe]

let me ask you a serious question though

and I do hope you don't mind me asking because what I need is a boat that more people would like to likely to watch or be interested in

if a bloke was doing KTL in the same type of boat you have - would you follow it more closely

or would it be better if it was an old wooden classic?

The Cenataur has the advantage of a big fan base and it does not upset people

A mac has an even more massive fan base

- but it certainly seems to upset the sailors in some way - upset them enough to not watch KTL - dunno

I have been pondering that and although the Mac will be more comfortable for you, despite your entertaining monologues, some of the quaintness of your films will be lost.

However, once you have banked your first million - having prostituted yourself to American television - you will be able to update The Slug's interior and while the general public will see the much loved Slug, in the evening you will retire to its new plush interior.

 

[finbarr]

Maybe you could get a cheap classic shoal draft

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....2492756&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_533wt_936

little bit of work and away you go. and they look pretty comfortable looking and way nicer looking than a mac!

 

[Little Five]

The beauty of the Slug is that it reflects the pace of your films. Mac 26 wouldn't.
Agree with the Major about the quaintness- and this is what will appeal to the USA- eccentric englishman in small boat called the Slug- the added self deprecating humour about the slug and you is irresistable.

 

[northwind]

Hitch hiking

Hi Dylan

Rather than owning the boat, have you thought about hitching lifts, finding people to do small legs of the journey with you on board? This way you could cover different craft, and pick up on peoples stories as you go along your way.

I'd recon through this forum there would be enough people who would want to partake, that you could line up a series of hops.. Even maybe including the odd Mobo so you can meet the Twassocks

The USP would still be you travelling round the country, but the boats and the perspectives could be filled in with documentary and people..

Just a thought..

D

 

[Spuddy]

No Dylan, It's the pair of you that are the brand. It's like that Rick Stein and his dog; it wasn't half as entertaining after Chalkie died
I reckon you're just stirring (well maybe not entirely).

 

[dylanwinter]

Good idea for widening the demographic

Hi Dylan

Rather than owning the boat, have you thought about hitching lifts, finding people to do small legs of the journey with you on board? This way you could cover different craft, and pick up on peoples stories as you go along your way.

I'd recon through this forum there would be enough people who would want to partake, that you could line up a series of hops.. Even maybe including the odd Mobo so you can meet the Twassocks

The USP would still be you travelling round the country, but the boats and the perspectives could be filled in with documentary and people..

Just a thought..

D

It is a good thought and a great idea for a proper TV series

logistically though - I do KTL between other bits of work. So when I get a gap in the work and the weather and tide is right I can usually go sailing - so I get the good weather and I can also do my proper work.

If I were to sail on other peoples boats then that would mean co-ordinating diaries. One would also expect to see the boats - filmed from another boat

one of the advantages of the slug is that there is little benefit to be gained from filming the boat - we already know hwta it looks like - having shots of the slug in situ would be good - but not essential - using new boats each week would make it essential

then there is insurance

So you idea - although its a great one for TV series would actually end up more expensive to make

and finally I snore and its my guess is so do lots of other sailors my age and weight

- you would wind up with two or three grumpy sleep deprived old men bickering with each other

although that in itself might be quite entertaining

Dylan

PS - really like being on my own boat by myself quietly filming stuff

 

[Searush]

(snip)
and finally I snore and its my guess is so do lots of other sailors my age and weight

- you would wind up with two or three grumpy sleep deprived old men bickering with each other

although that in itself might be quite entertaining

Dylan

PS - really like being on my own boat by myself quietly filming stuff

Isn't that exactly what Griff, Dara & the other idiot do? Or was it a deliberate non-literary reference?

 

[idpnd]

Rather than owning the boat, have you thought about hitching lifts, finding people to do small legs of the journey with you on board? This way you could cover different craft, and pick up on peoples stories as you go along your way.

what like this guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYWu_MqvM7Q

 

[dylanwinter]

but this would be different men

Isn't that exactly what Griff, Dara & the other idiot do? Or was it a deliberate non-literary reference?

two grumpy geordies one week

two grumpy scotsmen the next

Two grumpy orcadians

a real snapshot of Britain

it would work

you could call it grumpy old yachstmen

Dylan

 

[Gwylan]

Ford Focus!

One way you could also look at it is this:

If you were making a programme about a road trip to some lovely out of the way places do you think you'd get a wider audience from doing the trip in a Morris Traveller or a Ford Focus?

Lots more people own Fords, but I doubt they've any interest in watching them on the telly.

Lay off the Ford Focus, please. Ford, the Westerly of Car makers