mac or slug - which is uglier

[avole]

They have water ballast. From memory people forgot to put the water in and there were capsizes and drownings.

A quick search of the internet found one tragic case - at night, no ballast, operator's blood alcohol measured at .217.

All of which still leaves me in a quandary. The MacGregor is certified up to Force 6, which is fine for me, is unsinkable and appears a safe boat. I appreciate it's not the world's best sailing vessel, but is there another trailer sailer that can better it at the same price?

 

[Searush]

A quick search of the internet found one tragic case - at night, no ballast, operator's blood alcohol measured at .217.

All of which still leaves me in a quandary. The MacGregor is certified up to Force 6, which is fine for me, is unsinkable and appears a safe boat. I appreciate it's not the world's best sailing vessel, but is there another trailer sailer that can better it at the same price?

Better it at what? Nothing else will also plane at 20kts undrer engine - if that's what you want.

There are lighter boats for towing.
There are better trailerable sailing boats
There are better looking trailerable boats
There are probably trailer sailors with better accom

You must work out what you want to do, who you want to do it with & where you intend to do it before choosing a suitable boat. Set the parameters & then see what fits.

Personally I wouldn't ever buy new. I prefer to buy something fully equipped for cruising, with all the snags smoothed out & a proven track record - plus a lot cheaper! But we are not all the same or there would never be a used boat to buy.

 

[TamarMike]

I think the slugs hull is actually a very nice shape but the coachroof just doesn't match it. I don't like rounded coachroofs anyway (which was why I turned down a Sabre when looking at boats) and I think the Offshore's looks particularly ungainly when viewed from the quarter.

So perhaps you could make next Winter's video project the construction of a replacement marine ply coachroof with a bit more style (I am sure you could manage with a bit less headroom and it would be a bit easier to heat).

....Perhaps a design competition open to Ktlsailers and forumites at, say, £20 an entry with the chosen designer winning the old coachroof as a momento (or garden cold frame)

 

[dylanwinter]

what a brilliant idea - I have a jigsaw

I think the slugs hull is actually a very nice shape but the coachroof just doesn't match it. I don't like rounded coachroofs anyway (which was why I turned down a Sabre when looking at boats) and I think the Offshore's looks particularly ungainly when viewed from the quarter.

So perhaps you could make next Winter's video project the construction of a replacement marine ply coachroof with a bit more style (I am sure you could manage with a bit less headroom and it would be a bit easier to heat).

....Perhaps a design competition open to Ktlsailers and forumites at, say, £20 an entry with the chosen designer winning the old coachroof as a momento (or garden cold frame)

That is such a great idea - I have two spare blades for the jigsaw - I am going to the boat this week

I will chop the lid off and start afresh - I have some contiboard and tarp

now all we have to decide on is the colour

Dylan

PS I agree - the bulbous cabin does nothing for it.... but I have decided that I love my boat, that it is sentient and I am going to call it a she and rename it slugella

d

 

[avole]

Better it at what? Nothing else will also plane at 20kts undrer engine - if that's what you want.

There are lighter boats for towing.
There are better trailerable sailing boats
There are better looking trailerable boats
There are probably trailer sailors with better accom

You must work out what you want to do, who you want to do it with & where you intend to do it before choosing a suitable boat. Set the parameters & then see what fits.

Personally I wouldn't ever buy new. I prefer to buy something fully equipped for cruising, with all the snags smoothed out & a proven track record - plus a lot cheaper! But we are not all the same or there would never be a used boat to buy.

Already mentioned what I intend to do in other posts on this and the other two recent threads, but to summarise its canals plus Med.

 

[macsail]

How many Mac's are ever used after the first outing? How many are languishing in drives and garages?

All the charm of a Tupperware box, surprised not to see them in the Lakeland catalogue.

The whole charm of your adventure with the Slug is the wonder of the eccentricity of the venture. Try a rename to Limax - she might feel better about things then.

An honest sailor rarely puts down another sailor or his boat!

 

[macsail]

I don't like the idea of a boat that relies entirely on water ballast to stay upright. Not to mention the Macgregor looks ugly and doesn't sail that well.

I haven't followed KTL very closely, but what I have seen involves a lot of healthy criticism of speed boats. The Mac26 is a plastic speedboat with a stick.

An honest sailor rarely puts down another sailor or his boat!

 

[macsail]

*splutter*.... A Mac 26?!!!!

My god no! I had a look around one of these years ago and I consider them to be an affront to the sea. The sea was looking lumpy in that video, why? Because the gods themselves knew how vile a vessel the Mac26 is and wanted to smite if from the face of the planet

A sterile, soul less, tupperware petri dish vs the full blown character (and now celebrity) that is the Slug.

No contest... Slug wins in the beauty stakes and in every other area over the Mac 26.

An honest sailor rarely puts down another sailor or his boat!

 

[dylanwinter]

lots of work

An honest sailor rarely puts down another sailor or his boat!

Macsail old chap you will certainly have lots of work to do if you are going to go posting this comment on the forum here everytime some-one expresses an opinion on a boat

not sure about the honesty thing

surely they are being honest

rude perhaps

but to accuse some-one of being dishonest when they are being exactly the opposite seems a bit weird



aha

no I get it

I know what you are trying to say here

its irony isn't

or is it

confused of the slug

 

[photodog]

All of which still leaves me in a quandary. The MacGregor is certified up to Force 6, which is fine for me, is unsinkable and appears a safe boat. I appreciate it's not the world's best sailing vessel, but is there another trailer sailer that can better it at the same price?

If I was looking for a 26 foot trailerable yacht, I would get a Etap 24i.

Here's one...

http://uk.yachtworld.com/boats/2001/Etap-24i-2271335/United-Kingdom


They can be had from around £21k..... the one above has the winged shoal keel... so draws about 2.5 feet...... This is a far better option for the UK than a Macgregor.

There are lots of good European boats around the same size... several polish boats and there is that one the lad sailed across the atlantic as well....

There are a lot of aspects of the Mac that simply fill me with dread.... in particular the forward access on deck... the lack of power up wind... the lack of stiffness... the ability to be sailed in a unsafe state.. (Ie no water ballast..)




I just want to expand a bit on this idea that the Mac is a "safe" boat...

Its my opinion that a yacht should be inherintly safe... ie that failing a substantial structural failure (ie the keel falling off) there is no lack of action on behalf of the operator that would have such a negative impact on a boats stability that it would be unsafe.

The problem with the Mac is that the water ballast needs to have a manual intervention by the operator to ensure that the boat has sufficient stability to be safe to operate. I believe that leaving such a fundamental aspect of a boats safety open to operator error, is inherintley a bad thing.

There have been, and will continue to be, accidents due to the failure to ensure that the boat is ballasted properly.

 

[dylanwinter]

boat safety

If I was looking for a 26 foot trailerable yacht, I would get a Etap 24i.

Here's one...

http://uk.yachtworld.com/boats/2001/Etap-24i-2271335/United-Kingdom


They can be had from around £21k..... the one above has the winged shoal keel... so draws about 2.5 feet...... This is a far better option for the UK than a Macgregor.

There are lots of good European boats around the same size... several polish boats and there is that one the lad sailed across the atlantic as well....

There are a lot of aspects of the Mac that simply fill me with dread.... in particular the forward access on deck... the lack of power up wind... the lack of stiffness... the ability to be sailed in a unsafe state.. (Ie no water ballast..)




I just want to expand a bit on this idea that the Mac is a "safe" boat...

Its my opinion that a yacht should be inherintly safe... ie that failing a substantial structural failure (ie the keel falling off) there is no lack of action on behalf of the operator that would have such a negative impact on a boats stability that it would be unsafe.

The problem with the Mac is that the water ballast needs to have a manual intervention by the operator to ensure that the boat has sufficient stability to be safe to operate. I believe that leaving such a fundamental aspect of a boats safety open to operator error, is inherintley a bad thing.

There have been, and will continue to be, accidents due to the failure to ensure that the boat is ballasted properly.

winged keels - I really need to be able to get into those drying harbours - so for me its bilge or lift

as for safety and water ballast - I think that if some-one forgets to let the water into their mac they are just as likely to forget where the rocks are, forget to wear a life-jacket, forget to fill up with petrol

no boat is idiot proof

I and the slugette are living proof that an idiot can make a hash of anything and everything yet still survive

however, its my gues that the sluggette is probably a bit tougher than a Mac - but that engine on the back could get you out of, and probably into, trouble more quickly than the sluggette ever could

the sluggette moves and reacts prettty slowly - just like me

we are as one

Dylan

 

[Lakesailor]

Further to the Mac capsizing debate have a read of this

On their behalf, Macs are less prone to viruses.

 

[avole]

Had thought about the Etap before, along with a few others (Beneteau, Jeanneau).

I'll think about for a while, anyhow. I have my sailing dinghy to complete and use this summer, so, unless something exceptional comes up, I can wait until next winter before making a definitive decision.

 

[dylanwinter]

you have to read to page 7 to find out what happened

Further to the Mac capsizing debate have a read of this

On their behalf, Macs are less prone to viruses.

It seems that the ballast tanks were empty but the bilges were full of water because some retrofit portholes had been left open and allowed the bilges (as opposed to the ballast tanks) to fill with water that slopped around

operator error rather than design problem it seems to me.

If I had retrofitted some portholes in the slug close to the waterline (hmmm great idea), left them open, removed the ballast from the slug, filled the bilges up with water and left the near waterlevel portholes open while sailing .....well the slug would have sunk. In this story despite being awash with water the mac stayed afloat.

what am I doing...... becoming a defender of macs..... aaaagh!


if you want to read on here is what the owner said....


Hi Folks,

Sorry to have been so long in posting the final thread. I wanted to make sure all was complete with the insurace company first.

I want to tell you all that I know. As captain, I take full responsiblity. That said I believe there were many contributing factors that I know that I will avoid and hopefully you can avoid too. I am now a keel boat sailor with a Cape Dory 25D.

Ben (now my husband) had been in England the month before the capsize. He installed a CDI roller fuller on the boat prior to leaving. My brother jamed up the roller furling the first time out so he took the mast off the boat and was using it as a motor boat for the month prior to the accident. They had actually water skied with the boat. I did not go to the lake for the 6 weeks or so that Ben was out of the country.

The rules of the boat were that the ballast must ALWAYS be kept full, even at the dock. There were 2 after market ports installed by a PO in the hull in the quater berths which when healing were below the water line. The second rule on the boat was to close those ports if you opened them.

The boat did not have an autmotic bilge pump.

Here is what I think happened: The ports were left open. It rained and the boat had water, probably lots of water in the bilge plus wet cushions and gear aft.

When we arrived at the boat the mast was on the dock. We fixed the roller furling and raised the mast. All of that messing around on and off the dock, the boat did not tip like it had an empty ballast. I DID NOT CHECK THE BALAST. I ASSUMED that the rule had been followed There was a lot of extra equipment onboard from my brother's San Juan 24 he had just sold (I bought him that boat for the prior Christmas so I did not have to sail behind him). There were also water skis, ski belts, ski ropes extra bedding all sorts of stuff crammed in both quater berths which made it impossible to determine whether the ports were open or closed without taking all of that junk out. So I ASSUMED the second rule had been followed.

We had been having a steering issue with the boat. The steering was replaced once and Ben had adjusted it several times. I drove the boat that day and I told Ben he would have to work on the steering when he had time. It was very sloppy. In retrospect, I think the steering problem was probably lots of water in the bilge and little to no water in the balast tank and not the best adjusted wheel in the world. The boat was really wallering even in dead calm water under power.

Once we raised the sails and she started the heel, I think the water started to pour into the open starboard port. The Mac must be able to take a whole lot of water on before you can see it because I did not see any water below when I went down to stowe the cell pnone and glasses. I was in the compoanionway heading for the cockpit when the boat was knocked down the first time. I attempted to roll in the roller furling but it was stuck. I then took over the wheel and Ben worked on the lines. After the second knockdown, the water was up to the table. At that point, with the sails up (we were trying but just did not get them down) she rolled to starboard and you know the rest.

First lesson, always check all systems, that includes any ports that may be open, bilge and balast! Second lesson, don't sail behind my brother. Third lesson, get an automatic bilge. Fourth lesson, dont sail a boat with ports below the water line. This might not be a lesson, but I think I will not use CDI again. The roller furler sticking was a minor part and had it worked properly, the accident would probably still have happened. I have a profurl now-- a lot more expensive but a lot more reliable.

When I read all of your responses, collectively you all pretty much figured it out. Fair winds to all.

By the way there is one amoung you (somewhere in Ohio) who bought my boat from the insurance company for a song! The engine (including the $1200 repair cost) was worth more than he paid for the rig. Hold Fast and Happy Holidays.fran trapp
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