Lymington to Poole against the tide

[Paulc33]

Planning to do a long-waited for trip from Lymington to Poole this weekend but the tides are against us. Don’t really want to leave very late (HW Portsmouth) is 18:00 so was thinking of sailing against the tide. It’s besos so looks pretty weak…?

many advice greatly appreciated

 

[chrisD]

Sorry but it’s a bit difficult to take this seriously. You simply cannot sail against the tide to Poole, especially as the prevailing SW will be on the nose. You could motor but it will still take you for ever. It will take an age even to get out past the Needles or Hurst Castle if the tide is against you, even a neap. You will just have to get up early and go with the flow so at the very least you get well into the bay before it turns against you.

 

[Concerto]

Planning to do a long-waited for trip from Lymington to Poole this weekend but the tides are against us. Don’t really want to leave very late (HW Portsmouth) is 18:00 so was thinking of sailing against the tide. It’s besos so looks pretty weak…?

many advice greatly appreciated

Punching the tide is quite possible this weekend as the forecast is for a NE wind, so no beating to reach Poole. The tide will increase your sailing time. As you do not mention the size of your boat, no estimate can be given However, if you are returning after a day or two, then you will find the tide will be with you, but it will be a beat home.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

It's certainly doable and I know people that have done it - I don't know anyone who has done it twice though. The tides around both Hurst Narrows and Poole Harbour entrance are VERY strong. I've sat at 2 knots over the ground whilst doing 6 knots through the water in both places and that wasn't extreme, just the worst possible time with tide nearer springs than neaps. If you can't make at least 7 knots for at least an hour or two under motor then it's really not worth trying - even then you'll been running a a much higher revs than slack water. Sorry if this sounds negative but this is the sort of trip an experienced ferry captain would do no problem but they would not look forward to it.

If you are experienced with a good crew, and a fast 60 footer then go for it - the wind is looking to be favourable but you will need a very good boat not to need the engine for most of the trip unless you want a VERY long day. I'm local and quite experienced but I would not do this trip myself, - it just wouldn't be enjoyable. Even in a fastish Jeaneau 40 footer I crew sometimes I would expect a 10 hour day at least for this trip with the tide against us. It is a lovely trip in the right conditions and the time though.

One other thing, if you try and then decide it is not such a good idea I would turn back early as you have not got any refuge between Hurst Narrows and Poole. Christchurch is just about possible if you have a shallow draft but it's a challenging approach and entrance if you haven't done it a few times. Poole Harbour approach and entrance itself isn't that difficult but you do need to get it right and there's plenty of things to catch you out if don't. On a nice day when you are well rested it's fine but it's not one to try for the first time in low visibility when you are cold, tired and fed up of running at high revs for quite few hours (possibly several).

 

[Stemar]

Poole Harbour approach and entrance itself isn't that difficult but you do need to get it right and there's plenty of things to catch you out if don't.

Including a chain ferry that doesn't take prisoners - IIRC, it has priority over everything else on the water, and takes it.

 

[Boathook]

It's certainly doable and I know people that have done it - I don't know anyone who has done it twice though. The tides around both Hurst Narrows and Poole Harbour entrance are VERY strong. I've sat at 2 knots over the ground whilst doing 6 knots through the water in both places and that wasn't extreme, just the worst possible time with tide nearer springs than neaps. If you can't make at least 7 knots for at least an hour or two under motor then it's really not worth trying - even then you'll been running a a much higher revs than slack water. Sorry if this sounds negative but this is the sort of trip an experienced ferry captain would do no problem but they would not look forward to it.

If you are experienced with a good crew, and a fast 60 footer then go for it - the wind is looking to be favourable but you will need a very good boat not to need the engine for most of the trip unless you want a VERY long day. I'm local and quite experienced but I would not do this trip myself, - it just wouldn't be enjoyable. Even in a fastish Jeaneau 40 footer I crew sometimes I would expect a 10 hour day at least for this trip with the tide against us. It is a lovely trip in the right conditions and the time though.

One other thing, if you try and then decide it is not such a good idea I would turn back early as you have not got any refuge between Hurst Narrows and Poole. Christchurch is just about possible if you have a shallow draft but it's a challenging approach and entrance if you haven't done it a few times. Poole Harbour approach and entrance itself isn't that difficult but you do need to get it right and there's plenty of things to catch you out if don't. On a nice day when you are well rested it's fine but it's not one to try for the first time in low visibility when you are cold, tired and fed up of running at high revs for quite few hours (possibly several).

Done Christchurch into Solent against tide and with wind many times. Also done the return trip many times against wind and tide. Tides at Poole harbour aren't to bad and there is a back eddy going in by Shell? beach. Hurst narrows can be fun for a short period but there are back eddies on the west side of Hurst plus some in the Solent. Being a shallow draft boat I keep to the shallows as much as possible when the tide is against me. There is a book by Peter Bruce? showing the Solent tides and this includes the back eddies in quite good detail.
To the OP; if the wind isn't too strong go for it, but be prepared to use the engine and depending upon wind direction and tide, Christchurch Bay can have some interesting seas.
I do agree though with a lot of grumpy_o_g's comments.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

We’ve done this several times, it’s perfectly possible. Is there some reason you can’t leave Lymington early doors, you’ll be out of Hurst like a champagne cork. Hard to stb into Christchurch bay, and hit the poole entrance on the flood? Admittedly, we have a fast boat, but once you’re though Hurst, you’ve got quite a while to get to Poole before the ebb starts.

 

[Bobc]

If high tide is at 6pm, why not leave at 6am and take the tide all the way?

 

[capnsensible]

Just takes longer, is all....

 

[capnsensible]

If high tide is at 6pm, why not leave at 6am and take the tide all the way?

It's been a while but if I temember correctly the tide stream changes around two hours after high water Portsmouth. Happy to be corrected on that one!

I reckon if the idea is to spend a day sailing/ motoring to the destination is the objective, then why not just go? One can always write f on it at Lymington or Yarmouth.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Just takes longer, is all....

No it doesn’t, thats the point. You just have to leave early. Time and tide wait for no man, most especially in the western solent. This is home racing turf to us, maybe familiarity breeds something or other, but I assure you it's not contempt! Race an XOD here, you soon learn what’s possible, and this is actually straightforward.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

And it’s 1.5-2 hours before high and low for the streams to change direction, file that in your solent data banks forever, or live to regret it.

 

[KREW2]

N. E wind will also be wind over tide, so maybe a bit lumpy as well as slow.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

N. E wind will also be wind over tide, so maybe a bit lumpy as well as slow.

Not if you leave on the ebb it won’t.

 

[flaming]

Wind from the NE and pretty fresh, so perfectly doable unless in a very small boat. Hug the beach at Hurst (being careful to avoid the trap) and then go North channel and into Poole bay. Plugging the tide into Poole itself is likely to be the slowest point.

If the boat is on the small side I'd actually be more concerned about the return on Sunday that would be upwind into a fairly fresh breeze, and with wind over tide lumpiness to boot. Might not be very comfortable and if you have less experienced crew on board that you don't want to put off, I'd suggest giving it a miss.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Wind from the NE and pretty fresh, so perfectly doable unless in a very small boat. Hug the beach at Hurst (being careful to avoid the trap) and then go North channel and into Poole bay. Plugging the tide into Poole itself is likely to be the slowest point.

If the boat is on the small side I'd actually be more concerned about the return on Sunday that would be upwind into a fairly fresh breeze, and with wind over tide lumpiness to boot. Might not be very comfortable and if you have less experienced crew on board that you don't want to put off, I'd suggest giving it a miss.

That’s a fair point. The precise direction for the return matters quite a lot. If you can manage a 1 tack beat back to Hurst, it will be fine, retracing the route in Christchurch bay. But a heavy beat into 20kn plus of beastly easterly is hard work for even a racing crew.

 

[flaming]

That’s a fair point. The precise direction for the return matters quite a lot. If you can manage a 1 tack beat back to Hurst, it will be fine, retracing the route in Christchurch bay. But a heavy beat into 20kn plus of beastly easterly is hard work for even a racing crew.

Yep. And there doesn't really seem to be any change to the Easterlies in the forecast period.

Why does it never do that when I need to get the boat to Dartmouth.....?

 

[Tranona]

Early morning start is only sensible choice for all the reasons given already. Go out through N Channel and head straight for East Looe rather than for the Swash Channel. With the forecast wind it will be a brisk sail with a short uncomfortable period across Christchurch Ledge. Total passage time around 5 hours.

 

[Tranona]

If the boat is on the small side I'd actually be more concerned about the return on Sunday that would be upwind into a fairly fresh breeze, and with wind over tide lumpiness to boot. Might not be very comfortable and if you have less experienced crew on board that you don't want to put off, I'd suggest giving it a miss.

No mention of a return, but you are right, although tide is favourable for an afternoon passage, wind is not and could be uncomfortable, particularly over the Ledge

 

[Robin]

Not if you leave on the ebb it won’t.

If light winds from N and sunny enough then onshore sea breezes may modify the wind to zilch or blowing south west even. You can be 50 metres from another boat going same way and both be on different tacks with a nothing hole between.

HW P Portsmouth is not such a useful reference point in western Solent. During our very long residence in Poole we found LW Poole a far more reliable indicator of when streams change direction and Lymington was a frequent and favourite destination for a Friday evening getaway to be in ready for the street market on Saturday. We had a very quick boat and would frequently buck the tides but mostly always ensured the transit though hurst was with tide though we had done it against it on occasion making for an interesting challenge of balancing 1.1m draught v tide dodging close inshore using the north channel approach to hurst.