Lofrans Tigres windlass: repair or replace? ('Black Friday' beckons!)

[dankilb]

Warning: This thread is more about financial 'moral support' and tempering consumerist urges, than it is about boat maintenance

With the 10% offs currently across some of the big chandleries' websites, I've just realised that I can save a fair bit on a replacement for our very knackered Tigres:

Badly corroded casing (not just the back, which is beyond repair, but also the 'body')

This isn't just 'crusty'(!), there's a lit one hole in the casting (although it doesn't appear to go through into/inside the 'gearbox' (yet!):

Motor shows no signs of life when hooked up to a battery and given a few good 'taps' with a hammer - suspect it needs a re-wind or at least some replacement innards (or a new replacement @ £393)

And while the windlass isn't seized, the manual drum is very stiff. The whole thing needs a strip down and rebuild. There's no oil in it! And ponder at the state of the parts I'd need to remove! I have a MAPP torch, impact drivers, and some patience to use them(!), but reckon it'll fight me all the way. The corrosion (or freezing?) seems to have warped this access plate (it bulges out between each fastener!).

So the question is - having never been suckered 'Black Friday' before! - but should I just stump for a new one? We know that these sort of things rarely get reduced that much below their RRP. Yet the cheapest I can find now is £944 (with other retailing still for >£1200).

I had been planning to strip it down and attempt to rebuild it of course, but for this I was budgeting for some specialist alloy welding, loads of spares from Lofrans, and potentially the motor rewinding (I know good local places so wasn't expecting to plump £400 for the new one - but it remains a worst case possibility). Suspect I wouldn't get change from £300 just for the parts and labour I cannot do myself (welding). I could probably get at least a hundred quid for this one as spares.

There are a million other jobs/projects on the boat which will stop us launching in the spring if I don't get around to them, so not having to rebuild a very used/abused windlass wasn't something I was relishing! But then again, this is PBO and money remains tight in our refit project. So do I just buy a new one, face the wrath of SWMBO, and cherish it forever so it doesn't end up like this??!

 

[john_morris_uk]

No brainer. Get a new one.
If the gear box on your old one isn’t seized then someone will buy it for spares for theirs, so you can allay your conscience by remembering that you’re recycling it.

 

[dankilb]

No brainer. Get a new one.
If the gear box on your old one isn’t seized then someone will buy it for spares for theirs, so you can allay your conscience by remembering that you’re recycling it.

Thanks! My gut feeling agrees - although you may well be getting quoted over the dinner table when this decision 'comes out' later today! ??

 

[john_morris_uk]

Thanks! My gut feeling agrees - although you may well be getting quoted over the dinner table when this decision 'comes out' later today! ??

The magic phrase in any conversation in our household is “essential safety item”. Easy to argue that when it comes to the windlass...!

 

[john_morris_uk]

And boat stands for ‘break out another thousand’ anyway.

 

[rotrax]

I picked up a boxed brand new one for 400 quid from ebay five years ago.

My old one which needed the motor only replacing made nearly 200 quid on ebay after a clean up.

IIRC, a motor for repair was more than the one I was fortunate to find.

Your one really is Donald Ducked!

 

[vas]

I went the other way and restored mine (wasn't THAT bad though!)
I documented the process in this thread: gipsy gone..
for some reason no pics are showing in chrome, but they are there fine in other browsers I just tried...
Not an extremely easy job, yes internals will be useful for someone, however I think the casing is long gone!

V.

 

[dankilb]

I picked up a boxed brand new one for 400 quid from ebay five years ago.

My old one which needed the motor only replacing made nearly 200 quid on ebay after a clean up.

IIRC, a motor for repair was more than the one I was fortunate to find.

Your one really is Donald Ducked!

Wow now that is a bargain that I could probably even earn extra brownie points for at home! But I have watched eBay pretty closely for a few months and nothing suitable has come up.

I have repaired some pretty knackered junk in my time, but I knew I was pushing my luck contemplating bringing this back from the dead! Problem with things like this - where parts are all available - is once you commit to a rebuild, before you know it the parts spend is approaching the margins that would justify a brand new one.

I'm looking forward to the challenge of keeping its replacement in a far, far better state of repair than this sorry old lump! That said, as a testament to Lofrans, the mechanism inside operates surprisingly smoothly (I guess boosting my chances of selling it on for spares ?)

 

[dankilb]

I went the other way and restored mine (wasn't THAT bad though!)
I documented the process in this thread: gipsy gone..
for some reason no pics are showing in chrome, but they are there fine in other browsers I just tried...
Not an extremely easy job, yes internals will be useful for someone, however I think the casing is long gone!

V.

Fantastic thread - many thanks. I'm sure I read that one before (in Chrome!) as I was scouring the internet for a stripdown/rebuild thread with some decent piccies. Opening it in 'Edge' and the photos appeared nicely!

I was already flummoxed as to how to split the components as none of my pullers would fit - so good tip on the angle to get into the gaps!

But yes, mine is in a way worse state in terms of the components that would likely need (expensive) replacement, like the alloy castings. That said, the bits I have managed to remove - e.g. gypsy, clutch, even the wingnut - are all in good nick. Hopefully it'll make a good eBay parts/project item for someone (and recoup a bit of the replacement cost for us!).

 

[jonic]

Replace.

Have just done so too.

 

[Shuggy]

And another for replace, although I replaced and then fixed up the old one, selling for barely more than I had just spent on parts. For example, new brushes are extortionate. A local company made some for me for £109 delivered which was about half the price of the Lofrans ones IIRC. Motor casing was stripped out, chipped back to bare metal, presented to the dishwasher and then painted and re-built. The top rack of the dishwasher still has black oil staining!

All helping to reinforce the replace decision.

 

[dankilb]

And another for replace, although I replaced and then fixed up the old one, selling for barely more than I had just spent on parts. For example, new brushes are extortionate. A local company made some for me for £109 delivered which was about half the price of the Lofrans ones IIRC. Motor casing was stripped out, chipped back to bare metal, presented to the dishwasher and then painted and re-built. The top rack of the dishwasher still has black oil staining!

All helping to reinforce the replace decision.

Yup I've had similar experiences with things like outboard parts - they're hardly cheap individually, but once you've got a 'rebuild' list it quickly mounts into the many-hundreds!

I've got no plans to refurb the current unit to sell on. It's destined for eBay 'sold as seen'. Most broken junk on our boat attests to a life of relatively light use, but lighter-still care and maintenance! So I suspect the innards will be usable for someone, rather than all bent out or too worn.

The new one is ordered. And as a bonus we'll have a spare control box! Thanks for the input. The urge to tear things apart and recommission them always runs strong, but right now if it doesn't affect our ability to float it really shouldn't be on the jobs list!

 

[Gary Fox]

I have one, bought cheap at a boat show discount, but not installed yet. I have been wondering, what is the best way to avoid that crazy corrosion, starting a fresh install from scratch? Paint everything with Duralac? A thick layer of train grease?
Is it even possible to avoid the alloy parts rotting away?

 

[vas]

rinse them with fresh water (as much and as often)
maybe even make one of these dodgy canvas covers for them!

 

[dankilb]

That’s a good point - I was also wondering how best to protect it. Ours is mounted inside the anchor locker so it’s relatively protected from the worst of it, but it stilll suffers badly from the damp environment in there.

Aside from washing it, I’m going to be careful to seal the base (with butyl tape) and duralac the mounting bolts (the casting around the holes on mine suffered lots of corrosion).

I might also service it and strip it down quite early on, so that I can duralac or grease any components that seem likely to seize later.

A thick layer of train grease?

I wonder about a high quality ‘pure’ (vehicle/machinery) wax - I’ve used this on cars before, lovely stuff and seems harmless: Last Step Car Insulator Wax | Collinite Since 1936

 

[superheat6k]

If you want to bin the old one what would you want for it for spares ?

For brushes for my Lofrans I bought some starter motor brushes of similar, but slightly larger size then filed them to the correct size. About a £5 I recall, but very messy for the fingers getting the carbon dust cleaned off afterwards.

 

[dankilb]

If you want to bin the old one what would you want for it for spares ?

For brushes for my Lofrans I bought some starter motor brushes of similar, but slightly larger size then filed them to the correct size. About a £5 I recall, but very messy for the fingers getting the carbon dust cleaned off afterwards.

I was planning to get the most I can on eBay (based on it looking ‘unmolested’ inside, despite its sorry visual state!) - but of course (anyone) feel free to PM me if interested. Also bearing in mind it’d be either Merseyside, N Wales, or a courier given the weight.

The motor is a Bosch that does seem to be used in other applications, but I gave up trying to find parts! It’s also marked as 1000w - whereas the new ones are 1500 (I wonder if that’s just a more ‘optimistically’ rated OEM motor though?)

 

[Neeves]

I get involved in a number of windlass removals and then installations. One of the biggest problems appears to be that windlass makers mix their metals, stainless and aluminium, and no-one who instals them appears to have heard of Duralac. When I get involved with a removal I always take an angle grinder.

The other problem as outlined is that they are installed in a constant salt water environment. Using Duralac, or other similar product, and coating with those paints you use in the UK to seal the undersides of cars from the winter salt before installation is a good way too start (why they supply windlass motors with mild steel casings is a mystery). But the motors casings are also full of holes, that keep the motor cool and allow salt inside - I don't know the answer to that conundrum (except keep the motor away from the fall of the chain).

If you are going to buy and instal a new windlass - look at your current installation and wonder if you can turn the motor such that it is further away from the chain. Most windlass cater for a motor orientation through 360 degrees.

I recommend that when you wash the decks with fresh water you also wash the chain, stick the hose in the locker and give the chain a thorough rinsing. With out being daft, wash the salt of the windlass.

The other factor is that windlass enjoy an annual service, check the gear box oil, grease the shaft - nothing very complicated. Most I suspect are never serviced, or even thought about (until they sieze). But if you do service you can then check for corrosion and take some remedial action.

I'd dump the existing windlass - its not worth the effort. You (and I think your wife will reluctantly agree) do not want it failing on some dark, wet, windy night.

If you ever thought of changing chain size - now is the time.

Good luck,

Jonathan

 

[Stemar]

Waxoyl all over the inside, plus a good dose of ACF50 on the moving bits?

 

[Norman_E]

..........
The new one is ordered. And as a bonus we'll have a spare control box! Thanks for the input. The urge to tear things apart and recommission them always runs strong, but right now if it doesn't affect our ability to float it really shouldn't be on the jobs list!

Be careful. The old one may have been 1000 watts, but recent ones are 1200 or 1500 watts. You may have to change the control box for the new one, and you need to check whether the old wiring is adequate.