Liver aboard and council tax

[Peter]

If you are a full time live aboard, moored up in marina, the yacht being regularly used. What are the implications for paying local council tax, poll tax, what ever tax. Any help, information, links to web sites, local authority regulations etc, on this subject would be useful. Thanks

 

[Stingo]

1st thing to check is your Marina Berthing contract. There's probably a clause in there stipulating whether or not you may live aboard.

 

[Guest]

My liver is only taxed by the amount I drink

 

[Guest]

Precedence

A certain Mr Fox once lived the board and x Cow, s ferry moored on the West Cows side of the river when he received his local tax demand he up anchored and moored on the East Cowes side that the river. Sent the letter asking why when his abode was not in their area was he being taxed.
What's more he claims he got away with it.

-{)>

 

[Guest]

Re:Residential Boat Owners

I looked at contracts for two Solent marinas and they both specifically excluded liveabords. In the past they have faced critism from local residents - the Envy Syndrome. However some areas are more tolerant.
Some time ago PBO used to carry a note in their monthly events roundup. This gave the address of something called the Residential Boat Owners Association. It was run by Steve Robinson. Do not have the address, but the (old) telephone number was 0116 264 0279.
Please let me know if you make contact.

 

[Guest]

I think that you will find the rules vary from place to place. Some years ago a row developed in Torquay when somebody brought it to the council's attention that there were live aboards in the marina not paying the local tax. Until then the council didn't even know if they should charge the tax or not - but they soon saw the pounds signs revolving in front of their eyes so the live aboards let slip and went elsewhere.
Is it fair to call it the Envy Syndrome? No doubt live aboards will be taking advantage of some of the local authority's facilities - library, police, fire brigade (we hope not), subsidised buses, etc and so should contribute, shouldn't they?

 

[charles_reed]

In the UK, people living aboard boats are considered to be "of no fixed abode" and therefore are disenfranchised, liable to summary arrest for vagrancy and regarded by ratepayers as no better than didicoits.

However local authorities vary in their response to the situation - if the boat is in a marina the marina owners are, after all paying the local taxes, but resident-envy, local-authority greed and bureaucratic hubris frequently result in attempts to collect some revenue from liveaboards (sound better than 'liver aboard', which conjures images of palpitating organs oozing on deck).

To my knowledge this has never been tested in an English court and probably won't be because the local authority knows their on a hiding to nothing - the defendants will just slip away somewhere else and they can't nail an Admiralty warrant to the mast until they have a legal finding.

The fact that the marina operator is still there, available to be leant upon for the imputed sum is the reason so many marina operators (poor MDL) include the covenant against living aboard in their contracts.

Compare this delightfully anarchic situation with that on Europe - on the 183rd day of your stay in any one place, you become liable to local taxes or have your boat seized - the French even demand you re-register your boat in France with all the attendant classification and test rigmarole and the Douaniers demand the difference in TVA on that which you have paid.
Spain is similar, though the theory is the same in Portugal they, fortunately, mislay the papers.
The Rio Guadiana is especially favoured for this "beating the Bureaucrats", being an international frontier - Hairy Peter has successfully managed it for the last 6 years.

It may be the UK weather, the charges and cost of living or the tradition of marina-owner unwelcome that limits the number of liveaboards in the UK, but you find enormous numbers of North European liveaboards, from the Galician Rias, the numbers increasing geometrically the further S you go.

If you really want to examine the tigers dentures, why not phone the local authority and find out what their local policy might be?
Your fallback can always be a night decampment.

 

[AndrewB]

\"Of no fixed abode\".

"People living aboard boats are considered to be 'of no fixed abode' and therefore are disenfranchised".

Boats are a perfectly acceptable abode for both the census and the electoral register. The local council will be happy to accept a floating address for the purpose of levying community tax. The reason there is a problem is that the marina is obliged to have a residential licence and has to comply with a lot of extra planning and health legislation - naturally they don't like that so don't officially permit 'residents', blaming it on the council.

But credit agencies do indeed regard you as 'no fixed abode', and it can be hard to borrow or obtain a credit card. When I decided to move ashore two years ago, the building society where I had been a member for 30 years, refused to lend me money to buy a house solely on the grounds I did not have a postal address! Catch 22, why did they think I was applying? The branch manager suggested I lie about my address - I closed my account. For some reason my bank was not under the same credit restraints and was able to provide a mortgage.

I opened a post office box to handle my mail, and many agencies regarded that as my 'registered' address. The postcode was unique to my box, and would not compute if an attempt was made to work out where I lived. One car insurance firm virtually accused me of lying about my postcode. This in a letter they sent to my postcode address!

 

[TonyMS]

RBOA site is http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/6010/. I recommend joining.

We live on a narrow boat in the winter, and a sailing cat in the summer. Have offered to pay council tax, but the local authority don't seem interested. The key thing is to be genuinely mobile.

We have an address, negotiated with the post office, and a mail box nailed to a gate. We're on the electoral register.

Biggest problem is borrowing money - banks like houses! Tesco are most helpful.

 

[Guest]

I always thought that the maina paid a contribution throught buisness rates or something that covered council tax for those using the place, but if I am wrong I will gladly pay when the demand drops through the letter box. Ops no letter box oh well.

Roly, Voya Con Dios, Glasson, Lancaster

 

[Guest]

As I understand it the test is not whether you live on a boat but whether that boat ever floats - if it does [and it need only be at springs] then no "rates" were payable and Council tax should follow.
See Cyril Ionides' book "A floating home" published in about 1932 when times were rough and a number took to barges for reasons including the fact that no rates were payable - in those days a sizeable chunk of income which can be better spent elsewhere.

 

[ccscott49]

I was asked for council tax, when I was berthed at Noss, on the Dart, they came to the boat! When they left, I asked them to untie my warps! they never came back!
AndrewB, if you own the berth or rent it for a year, they MAY, let you on the electoral roll, but if you rent the berth for less than a year, forget it! Its a postcode thing!! Without being on the electoral roll, forget a mobile phine contract aswell! I have tried all of these things, credit cards, tax, phone, loans etc.