Lithium batteries worth buying?

Refueler said:
Someone like Nautima as I mentioned do not specify geographical limitations - so I would expect them to offer cover.
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Maybe for your boat. How far are you realistically going to go?
Certain insurers want to insure certain value of boats.Global aren't interested in low value boats below about £150k. Admiral are expensive and won't insure you for places like Cuba as they are an American company. Nobody offers hurricane cover at reasonable rates. We choose instead to leave the hurricane belt for the season. It's not a one size fits all system when you are in the Caribbean.
 
Koeketiene said:
Looked at Lithium batteries a while ago, but as I am not a full time liveaboard I felt they weren't worth the expense.

It does eem however that not all insurance companies are keen on them: Insurance refusals on lithium-ion boats
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That article is about Lithium-ion, which nobody in their right mind is fitting to boats. It is right to refuse insurance to anyone fitting such dangerous batteries in a marine environment, and I'm not aware of anyone on these forums discussing doing so.
 
There are some misunderstandings cropping up in this thread.

1. Lithium ion is not a specific type of battery but a family of chemistries of which LiFePO4 (LFP) is one member.

2. I've never heard of any permanently installed lithium ion boat battery that is not LFP. The reason for this is that it gives up the high energy density of some other members of the group in favour of chemical stability. Rod Collins, who knows more about LFP on boats than most, has a long-standing reward for anyone producing a genuine photo of an LFP fire on a boat not caused by faulty installation. It has never been claimed.

3. Plenty of boats are destroyed by lithium ion batteries but the culprits are the more volatile members of the family - lithium cobalt oxide being among the highest, I believe. Non-LFP lithium ion batteries are among the biggest destroyer of super yachts according to a recent survey. But these are the items brought on by guests or other boat toys, not the main battery system which is invariably LFP. The dreadful recent dive boat tragedy was caused by non-LFP lithium ion batteries being left unattended on charge.

4. The biggest fire risk in my view comes from the high energy density and low internal resistance of LFP allowing a massive flow of amps into a dead short. For that reason the ABYC technical guidance is for Class-T main fusing because of the high amperage interrupt capacity (AIC).
 
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Poey50 said:
There are some misunderstanding cropping up in this thread.

1. Lithium ion is not a type of battery but a family of chemistries of which LiFePO4 (LFP) is one member.
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Lithium Ion battery is less 'safe' than a LiFe / LiFePo4 battery ... because a LiFe is based on Lithium and IRON .... Ion lithium versions are such as LiPo and LiIon used for such as models and other items that demand higher amp rates but in smaller capacities usually.

2. I've never heard of any permanently installed lithium ion boat battery that is not LFP. The reason for this is that it gives up the high energy density of some other members of the group in favour of chemical stability. Rod Collins, who knows more about LFP on boats than most, has a long-standing reward for anyone producing a genuine photo of an LFP fire on a boat not caused by faulty installation. It has never been claimed.

3. Plenty of boats are destroyed by lithium ion batteries but the culprits are the more volatile members of the family - lithium cobalt oxide being among the highest, I believe. Non-LFP lithium ion batteries are among the biggest destroyer of super yachts according to a recent survey. But these are the items brought on by guests or other boat toys, not the main battery system which is invariably LFP. The dreadful recent dive boat tragedy was caused by non-LFP lithium ion batteries being left unattended on charge.

4. The biggest fire risk in my view comes from the high energy density and low internal resistance of LFP allowing a massive flow of amps into a dead short. For that reason the ABYC technical guidance is for Class-T main fusing because of the high amperage interrupt capacity (AIC).
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Again .. (I gave up splitting up your post ... )

Your mistake is like saying :

Vacuum cleaner is a Hoover instead of Hoover is a type of Vacuum Cleaner.

There are many different forms of Lithium batterys .... LiIon are not same as LiFe / LiFePo4 ...
 
Refueler said:
Lithium Ion battery is less 'safe' than a LiFe / LiFePo4 battery ... because a LiFe is based on Lithium and IRON .... Ion lithium versions are such as LiPo and LiIon used for such as models and other items that demand higher amp rates but in smaller capacities usually.



Again .. (I gave up splitting up your post ... )

Your mistake is like saying :

Vacuum cleaner is a Hoover instead of Hoover is a type of Vacuum Cleaner.

There are many different forms of Lithium batterys .... LiIon are not same as LiFe / LiFePo4 ...
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I give up.
 
I needed to replace our batteries recently and was initially keen on LiFePO4. However, having researched it and got various quotes, I decided that the expense wasn't worth it. The cost of the batteries, probably a new alternator, regulator, battery management system and a better monitor than I already had rapidly grew to an eye watering figure. They are an attractive proposition if you have big power requirements, want to minimize weight on a racing yacht or have deep pockets. I did decide to try Lead Carbon AGM as an incremental improvement and, so far have been very pleased.
 
riverteign said:
I needed to replace our batteries recently and was initially keen on LiFePO4. However, having researched it and got various quotes, I decided that the expense wasn't worth it. The cost of the batteries, probably a new alternator, regulator, battery management system and a better monitor than I already had rapidly grew to an eye watering figure. They are an attractive proposition if you have big power requirements, want to minimize weight on a racing yacht or have deep pockets. I did decide to try Lead Carbon AGM as an incremental improvement and, so far have been very pleased.
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Went down the same route and for the same reasons.
Equally pleased.
 
Refueler said:
Suggest you investigate Lithium Batterys and their various forms. Your info is in error.
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This: BU-205: Types of Lithium-ion
Along with every other reputable source you will find, indicates that Li-ion is a generic term which encompasses LFP.

That is not to say that the distinction between LFP and is unimportant, but in a technical sense Li-ion refers to all chemistries. Much as 'hydrocarbons' refers to CNG, LNG, petrol, kerosene, or diesel.
 
Kelpie said:
This: BU-205: Types of Lithium-ion
Along with every other reputable source you will find, indicates that Li-ion is a generic term which encompasses LFP.

That is not to say that the distinction between LFP and is unimportant, but in a technical sense Li-ion refers to all chemistries. Much as 'hydrocarbons' refers to CNG, LNG, petrol, kerosene, or diesel.
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Trivial factoid. People who think Li-Ion can be compared to LFP commit Russell's paradox. A set cannot also be a member of that set. This is why a set of say parrots, crocodiles, mice, nematodes and animals is wrong.

On the other hand it is completely logical (and sometimes necessary) to compare LFP to other types of Li-ion.
 
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