Lights and shapes when hove-to ?

[sarabande]

Pub debate (it became quite warm !)


If I decide to heave-to at night to wait for a tide, what lights must I show, please ?

I am under way, but not making way (at least not in the direction indication by the normal P&S lights) and not able to manoeuvre as ColRegs wishes. Am I therefore Not Under Command ? or Restricted in my Ability to Manoeuvre"


As well, what sounds, and in daylight what shapes ?



Anyone asking, as one participant did, whether I am towing a dinghy makes a difference, will be disqualified.

 

[macd]

http://www.ybw.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-133525.html

 

[VicS]

Pub debate (it became quite warm !)


If I decide to heave-to at night to wait for a tide, what lights must I show, please ?

I am under way, but not making way (at least not in the direction indication by the normal P&S lights) and not able to manoeuvre as ColRegs wishes. Am I therefore Not Under Command ? or Restricted in my Ability to Manoeuvre"


As well, what sounds, and in daylight what shapes ?



Anyone asking, as one participant did, whether I am towing a dinghy makes a difference, will be disqualified.

You are not a "vessel not under command" as far as the colregs are concerned because you are able resume the ability to manoeuvre as the regs require.

Normal side and stern lights or tricolour required.

Its a good idea to heave-to on a starboard tack ( day or night) as you are then the stand-on vessel in most ordinary situations. Thats why traditionally the main halyard ( which you might wnat to access to reef) is on the staboard side . Also why the galley ( and the heads ) is best located on the port side

 

[PaulRainbow]

You are under way, not making way. Therefore you are required to display the lights and/or shapes applicable to your vessel. Same with any sound signals.

You are neither NUC or RAM as you have chosen to heave to, you can resume making way at will.

One caveat, if you were hove to because of extreme weather conditions you could consider yourself to be NUC. Not sure if you'd be carrying the lights and shapes for that one though

Rule 24, Towing and pushing, is only applicable to power driven vessels so is irrelevant here.

 

[macd]

You are not a "vessel not under command" as far as the colregs are concerned because you are able resume the ability to manoeuvre as the regs require.

...and even if you were, Rule 27 (g): Vessels of less than 12 metres in length, except those engaged in diving operations, shall not be required to exhibit the lights and shapes prescribed in this Rule.

 

[[163233]]

If I decide to heave-to at night to wait for a tide, what lights must I show, please ?

2 white flashes every 10 seconds will usually keep merchant shipping conscious.

As well, what sounds, and in daylight what shapes ?

A good blast of Bee Gees "Stayin' Alive" just as they get in range, and I'd stick with the boat shape as most mariners are familiar with it.

 

[GHA]

One caveat, if you were hove to because of extreme weather conditions you could consider yourself to be RAM. Not sure if you'd be carrying the lights and shapes for that one though

Could you and meet the rules exactly? RAM is a vessel which from the nature of her work is restricted in her ability to manoeuvre, a hove to boat isn't exactly at work...

Cockcroft should be along in a minute though..

 

[PaulRainbow]

Could you and meet the rules exactly? RAM is a vessel which from the nature of her work is restricted in her ability to manoeuvre, a hove to boat isn't exactly at work...

Cockcroft should be along in a minute though..

You are correct, i should have said NUC.

 

[EdWingfield]

At a safety meeting I asked the MCA boys a similar Q. What lights and shapes for lying to a sea anchor?

After more than 5mins conflab, they recommended an all round white and half-hourly position updates to CG. CG would then Pan Pan your situation.

 

[Baddox]

A slight thread hijack or another tangent.

What would the status of my boat be when I’m angling from a motorboat with the engine turned off? I’m underway but am I making way as I drift on wind and tide without sail or anchor.

 

[VicS]

A slight thread hijack or another tangent.

What would the status of my boat be when I’m angling from a motorboat with the engine turned off? I’m underway but am I making way as I drift on wind and tide without sail or anchor.

See https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/281965/msn1781.pdf

 

[grumpy_o_g]

A slight thread hijack or another tangent.

What would the status of my boat be when I’m angling from a motorboat with the engine turned off? I’m underway but am I making way as I drift on wind and tide without sail or anchor.

You should have a basket welded to your rigging and therefore have right of way over everything, including lighthouses and harbours, as far as I can tell. Do remember that you have an obligation to create as much wash as possible whenever passing moored leisure vessels though.

 

[macd]

At a safety meeting I asked the MCA boys a similar Q. What lights and shapes for lying to a sea anchor?
After more than 5mins conflab, they recommended an all round white and half-hourly position updates to CG. CG would then Pan Pan your situation.

I suspect that consideration of the ColRegs requirements for that have appeared in literature more often than about hove-to. One of the several 'heavy weather sailing' books speaks of the primacy of Rule 5. It adds a rider about being prepared to contact approaching vessels by radio, or by flashing code letter 'D' with a bright white light. (Or hoisting the same code flag in daylight, both of which might these days baffle them enough to keep out of the way).

Anyway, my instinct whilst hove-to would be to regard myself as under sail, if only because I was and most certainly not under power. To the best of my knowledge there's no rule that you have to actually go anywhere...

 

[PaulRainbow]

A slight thread hijack or another tangent.

What would the status of my boat be when I’m angling from a motorboat with the engine turned off? I’m underway but am I making way as I drift on wind and tide without sail or anchor.

You are underway but not making way. Making way is when you are being propelled through the water, not drifting with it.

 

[john_morris_uk]

You are underway but not making way. Making way is when you are being propelled through the water, not drifting with it.

That would be true if you truly were stationary in the water.

All the boats I've sailed forereach slowly when hove to. It's a moot point though as even a large ship drifts with the wind slowly.

 

[LittleSister]

A slight thread hijack or another tangent.

What would the status of my boat be when I’m angling from a motorboat with the engine turned off? I’m underway but am I making way as I drift on wind and tide without sail or anchor.

You are underway but not making way. Making way is when you are being propelled through the water, not drifting with it.

That would be true if you truly were stationary in the water.

All the boats I've sailed forereach slowly when hove to. It's a moot point though as even a large ship drifts with the wind slowly.

For the purposes of most of the ColRegs it doesn't matter whether or not you are making way or not: if you are underway you still show the relevant lights for a power driven vessel.

The only exception to the above I can think of is the requirement to be doing a safe speed, as there may be circumstances (e.g drifting across a narrow channel or a traffic separation lane; restricted visibility) where not making way would not be a 'safe speed' to be able to take 'proper and effective avoiding action'.

By the way, obligations like keeping a lookout , avoiding collisions apply even if you are not underway, let alone under way and not making way.

 

[Uricanejack]

That would be true if you truly were stationary in the water.

All the boats I've sailed forereach slowly when hove to. It's a moot point though as even a large ship drifts with the wind slowly.

A large ship merely drifting is not making way, Test case (applied logic not Crockford) Large Ship looses steering, N.U.C. engine still running, ship still moving through water, Lights, two all round red in a vertical line where they can best be seen, + side lights and stern light because Underway Still Making Way. Shut engine Off or better go astern and stop. Engine of no longer moving through water under any form of own power. Underway Not Making Way Lights are different Side lights and stern lights are now turned off.
Ship will still drift down wind. But is not making way.

The Chap in the angling in motor boat with the motor off. Is like the drifting ship not making way. He is most certainly underway. But since he is not a vessel engaged in fishing, Just a guy in a power driven vessel fishing. It makes no difference.

You have a valid point regarding a hove to sailing vessel, It is probably if not certainly making way slowly. I can steer my boat and most others I've tried to hove to, when hove to. Still makes no difference still a sailing vessel underway,

The chap with the sea anchor, I would have said was under way, having occasionally used a sea anchor when angling.

 

[Uricanejack]

Just to throw a curve ball.

My sail boat has a motor. I can be a Sailing Vessel or a Power Driven Vessel.

If I go sailing and I drop the sails and stop in the water because I felt like it. Am I a sailing vessel underway not making way or am I now a power driven vessel under way not making way?

By the way I am stupid enough to do this every so often. Just to put the barby on.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

In daylight I would fly the signal "PP".

 

[thinwater]

I'm embarrassed that folks don't know that they are "under way." You are also on which ever tack the wind is on.

If sails are not up you are a power vessel (this came up in a local accident--guy drifted across a channel, paying no attention--power boat grounded avoiding him--determination was divided fault).

Simple.