Liferafts and buying second hand

[Beneteau381]

Am going to open the one on my boat in Portugal, its about 10 years old now, had a couple of services and I suspect the last one was a bit of a box ticking exercise.
So I thought, why not buy one off Ebay and open it, have good look and see whats in it . Then know to expect ftom mine.
I bought one and picked it up yesterday. On the bag it says Offshore so it should be pretty specced up. I did the biz and opened it today. The manufacturer told me it was a 2009 from the serial number, I bought it anyway. Opened it today, the valice interior and outside of the vacuum bag was pretty shitty but the raft it self is pristine, the co2 bottle similar and the weight is spot on from what I can gather. Big surprise was the co2 bottle, filled in 2007, the flares 2007 to 2011, the plastic safety contents? Yuck, nasty cheap crap. So the raft looks as if its older than the manufacturer said. The stuff inside, 3 red hand flares, a pair of so called plastic oars, a torch but the container was broken from the packing of the raft, needless to say it didnt work even with new batteries, cant find the sea sick tabs, a whistle, a knife, a throwing quoit, a roof light that doesnt work, I changed the batteries but the wiring is crap, two rusty hole mending clamps, a cloth bailing bag and a couple of squares of sponge.
The good news was that the flares worked ok, even though out of date in 2011! Burned red and bright for 3 mins. I will continue tomorrow, inflation etc to see if it stays up. I expect it do so, the seams and the fabric looks pristine, I will update!
So far I am not impressed with the contents!

 

[capnsensible]

It seems no matter what manufacturer you choose, the liferaft contents are nearly always mickey mouse. Extra stuff in a grab bag is a good idea.

 

[Beneteau381]

It seems no matter what manufacturer you choose, the liferaft contents are nearly always mickey mouse. Extra stuff in a grab bag is a good idea.

Ive come to that conclusion as well, the flares, torches etc in a waterproof “thing” attached to the raft exterior, a safety grab bag so to speak .What has surprised me is that the main structure etc is pristine. The co2 bottle, not a mark on it. Seams and fabric pristibe. Question is now, do I pop it to check that the mechanism works? Ive sourced a hydrostatic test man, a co2/nitrogen mix filler and a source for new bottles, firing mechanisms etc.

 

[sarabande]

I agree for the grab bag comment. I have an orange Peli case into which everything like car keys, spare specs, wallet, etc go as soon as I go on board. It already contains flares, medication, heliograph, and all the handy stuff one might need and which it is important must be in date, such as chocolate bars, seasick pills, electrolytes.

 

[Beneteau381]

I agree for the grab bag comment. I have an orange Peli case into which everything like car keys, spare specs, wallet, etc go as soon as I go on board. It already contains flares, medication, heliograph, and all the handy stuff one might need and which it is important must be in date, such as chocolate bars, seasick pills, electrolytes.

Indeed! I am going to treat my, refurbed by me in boat liferaft, as a pure liferaft with the stuff that can go out of date in a separate container. I do have a dedicated grab bag and put the important stuff in there.

 

[capnsensible]

Ive come to that conclusion as well, the flares, torches etc in a waterproof “thing” attached to the raft exterior, a safety grab bag so to speak .What has surprised me is that the main structure etc is pristine. The co2 bottle, not a mark on it. Seams and fabric pristibe. Question is now, do I pop it to check that the mechanism works? Ive sourced a hydrostatic test man, a co2/nitrogen mix filler and a source for new bottles, firing mechanisms etc.

Reckon its worth it if you can recharge and rearm. Quite some years ago I set one off in the car park at Haslar Marina outside our old office. It was for ditching anyway. Just as well, it inflated OK but had several leaks. Didnt stay up very long.

The interesting bit really was the smell. Several people got inside it and said they felt sick. In the car park!!

 

[pagoda]

Been talking with the workshop manager of a business which services rafts. Interesting. Those which are vacuum bagged are generally perfect, even 10 years later. In UK waters it's rarely warm enough to damage the adhesives used in raft construction, but rafts which have been in hot climates suffer badly.
Bottles are sometimes discarded on date , due to hydrotest requrements, despite being correct weight and without any rust. Commercial business from "big ships" is pushing away leisure and small craft re-certification using price, unfortunately.
I've seen mine in the flesh now, its clean enough to eat from ,no rust on the bottle, correct weight etc.. Needs some batteries and new flares, careful folding and vacuum re-packing.

The volume of perfectly good material discarded from commercial rafts due to excessive date-ism is mind-boggling, given that most are on a 12 month certification.

 

[Beneteau381]

Reckon its worth it if you can recharge and rearm. Quite some years ago I set one off in the car park at Haslar Marina outside our old office. It was for ditching anyway. Just as well, it inflated OK but had several leaks. Didnt stay up very long.

The interesting bit really was the smell. Several people got inside it and said they felt sick. In the car park!!

The smell, thats right, the bride commented on it, slightly rubbery fishy smell! The re arm and recharge, I can get the bottle hydrostatically tested if I want to, local mate does NDT for the oil field and he doesnt have an issue with testing and certifying. The firing mechanism is Chinese and not like the UK ones Ive sourced. However, need to check threads etc to see if the UK source Ive found will fit. If not then the UK source can supply bottles. Also sourced a supplier of CO2/N mix who will do refills relatively close to here. The issue of course is is it worth it? For me I suppose yes, I will know exactly what is in there, to recommend any one else doing it? Or sell a refurb?

 

[Beneteau381]

Been talking with the workshop manager of a business which services rafts. Interesting. Those which are vacuum bagged are generally perfect, even 10 years later. In UK waters it's rarely warm enough to damage the adhesives used in raft construction, but rafts which have been in hot climates suffer badly.
Bottles are sometimes discarded on date , due to hydrotest requrements, despite being correct weight and without any rust. Commercial business from "big ships" is pushing away leisure and small craft re-certification using price, unfortunately.
I've seen mine in the flesh now, its clean enough to eat from ,no rust on the bottle, correct weight etc.. Needs some batteries and new flares, careful folding and vacuum re-packing.

The volume of perfectly good material discarded from commercial rafts due to excessive date-ism is mind-boggling, given that most are on a 12 month certification.

You have posted my thoughts as well! If you think of dive bottles, charge expand, deplete contract, and yet they can go on ad infinitum. The adhesive and fabric looks pristine, the inside of the valise and the outside of the vac bag were minging from black mould and damp but a good clean etc? The vac was still ok with a nipple used to vac it, when I lifted the stopper you could hear the air going in.

 

[[163233]]

Very few small boats are coded beyond cat 2, and at cat 2 the liferaft will have very little in it, the presumption being that it's made up in a grab bag. Otherwise the costs would get ridiculous, you'd have to have two cat c first aid kits for instance. So yes, if you're buying a second hand life raft, even one from a coded boat, you will need a grab bag.

What's the hang up with Chinese made stuff? They make almost everything these days.

 

[Refueler]

Here's a question .....

If you are a small boat owner like me ... 25ft motor sailer ... and you get a 4 man valise coastal LR. Lets say you buy 2nd hand and you unpack ... check and want to put back in valise ....

Is it really necessary to vacuum bag it ?

I agree that if you are going to ignore the item till next year / 3 years later or whatever - then vaccum bag it. But if you able to open it anytime you want ... do not leave it exposed to weather when not sailing ... could it go without bagging ??

Next question - all those who do self inspect - where do you get your vaccum bags from .....

They are serious questions for me - as I intend to get a 2nd hand 2 or 4 man later this coming season.

 

[Beneteau381]

Here's a question .....

If you are a small boat owner like me ... 25ft motor sailer ... and you get a 4 man valise coastal LR. Lets say you buy 2nd hand and you unpack ... check and want to put back in valise ....

Is it really necessary to vacuum bag it ?

I agree that if you are going to ignore the item till next year / 3 years later or whatever - then vaccum bag it. But if you able to open it anytime you want ... do not leave it exposed to weather when not sailing ... could it go without bagging ??

Next question - all those who do self inspect - where do you get your vaccum bags from .....

They are serious questions for me - as I intend to get a 2nd hand 2 or 4 man later this coming season.

The vac bag is bigger than it needs to be, I suspect a one size fits all, I cut the top seam off, it is re useable, decent duct tape will reseal it, there is a sealable connection to use to vacuum it. The arming mechanism is weird. A wire cable out of the end of the bottle mechanism with a nipple on the end. This is pulled to fire it. However to keep the vacuum intact the nipple is inside the vac bag and is gripped by a SS clamp over the wall of the vac bag and the nipple inside next to an eyelet. There is a lanyard inside connected to the raft and it goes around the eyelet inside. The exterior lanyard is connected to the clamp and to the eyelet. Basically it is tied throught the inside lanyard through the vac pack eyelet. When the exterior lanyard is pulled, the nipple is pulled by the clamp through the vac pack,.
There is enough slack in the vac pack to allow movement to fire the cylinder. When it inflates, it is still connected to the raft through the eyelet loop.
So to answer your question, the vac bag is reuseable. I weighed the bottle, it is within spec so I guess still full of gas. For you with your expertise, buy, dismantle, check, repack confident that it is ok.

 

[Beneteau381]

Very few small boats are coded beyond cat 2, and at cat 2 the liferaft will have very little in it, the presumption being that it's made up in a grab bag. Otherwise the costs would get ridiculous, you'd have to have two cat c first aid kits for instance. So yes, if you're buying a second hand life raft, even one from a coded boat, you will need a grab bag.

What's the hang up with Chinese made stuff? They make almost everything these days.

Ive changed the description, however the materials used for the inside goods dont look good, the dome light fitting and the torch are truly horrible, badly made from cheap plastic and thin metal. The paddles look like something provided with a childs beach toy. The pump similarly.

 

[Graham376]

I can get the bottle hydrostatically tested if I want to, local mate does NDT for the oil field and he doesnt have an issue with testing and certifying. The firing mechanism is Chinese and not like the UK ones Ive sourced. However, need to check threads etc to see if the UK source Ive found will fit. If not then the UK source can supply bottles. Also sourced a supplier of CO2/N mix who will do refills relatively close to here. The issue of course is is it worth it? For me I suppose yes, I will know exactly what is in there, to recommend any one else doing it? Or sell a refurb?

If you have any problems, CTS may be able to sort. I get my dive tanks tested there and reasonably close to you - CTS (UK) Liverpool | Cylinder Testing & Sales UK Ltd | Call 0151 448 0555

 

[Refueler]

The vac bag is bigger than it needs to be, I suspect a one size fits all, I cut the top seam off, it is re useable, decent duct tape will reseal it, there is a sealable connection to use to vacuum it. The arming mechanism is weird. A wire cable out of the end of the bottle mechanism with a nipple on the end. This is pulled to fire it. However to keep the vacuum intact the nipple is inside the vac bag and is gripped by a SS clamp over the wall of the vac bag and the nipple inside next to an eyelet. There is a lanyard inside connected to the raft and it goes around the eyelet inside. The exterior lanyard is connected to the clamp and to the eyelet. Basically it is tied throught the inside lanyard through the vac pack eyelet. When the exterior lanyard is pulled, the nipple is pulled by the clamp through the vac pack,.
There is enough slack in the vac pack to allow movement to fire the cylinder. When it inflates, it is still connected to the raft through the eyelet loop.
So to answer your question, the vac bag is reuseable. I weighed the bottle, it is within spec so I guess still full of gas. For you with your expertise, buy, dismantle, check, repack confident that it is ok.

Thanks for that ....

My thoughts are because my boat sits basically at bottom of my garden - the vacuum bagging may not be necessary ... or at least I can put all back in the old vacuum bag and just tape it up ...
The valise will not stay out in the weather when boat not used ... most time it will be in the summer mobile next to the BBQ area.

I think what may be a factor is how much the vaccuum bag reduces the size of the raft for packing in valise ?

 

[[163233]]

Ive changed the description, however the materials used for the inside goods dont look good, the dome light fitting and the torch are truly horrible, badly made from cheap plastic and thin metal. The paddles look like something provided with a childs beach toy. The pump similarly.

On the one I set off the pump didn't work at all.

I doubt they check it during a service either.

 

[pagoda]

I think what may be a factor is how much the vaccuum bag reduces the size of the raft for packing in valise ?

Maybe less critical in a soft valise but the vacuum packing- size reduction is pretty well essential with a hard case raft.

 

[Irish Rover]

Just removed my 6 man liferaft from the boat today. It dated from 2003 and was last serviced 2016 with next service due December 2018. Boy was it heavy. It took 2 of us to lift it off the boat and then only with huge effort. I am not planning to replace it as I don't feel the need for a l/r with the type of boating I do. I also have a very good rib on davits on the stern which I could launch in a minute - a lot of my boating is single-handing and I would not have been able to launch the l/r on my own. The l/r was last serviced in Preveza and was well stocked with water, rations, flares [exp Dec 2019], first-aid, torch, knife etc. I recovered everything that was useful and disposed of the raft and casing. The marina accepted the flares for disposal. I still have the tank and not sure what to do with it.

 

[Beneteau381]

Reckon its worth it if you can recharge and rearm. Quite some years ago I set one off in the car park at Haslar Marina outside our old office. It was for ditching anyway. Just as well, it inflated OK but had several leaks. Didnt stay up very long.

The interesting bit really was the smell. Several people got inside it and said they felt sick. In the car park!!

Reckon its worth it if you can recharge and rearm. Quite some years ago I set one off in the car park at Haslar Marina outside our old office. It was for ditching anyway. Just as well, it inflated OK but had several leaks. Di
Just spoke to a firm, they will recharge the bottle reset the firing mechanism and fit a new burst disk for roughly £60-70 and do a hydrotest of the bottle for roughly £30. He said that he has spare firing mechanisms for the chinese bottles as well.

 

[LadyInBed]

I still have the tank and not sure what to do with it.

Look for your local Sub-Aqua club they might have a use for it - training aid, pony cylinder, pool training cylinder.
PS obviously (for the pedants) they will have to replace the pillar valve.