Liferaft Recommendations

[Novice]

Dear Forumites,

I am pondering which liferaft to buy for our boat. We are looking at a 6-man (sorry, person), as apparently you can only get two people in a 4-man (sorry, person) liferaft, and there are four of us on a regular basis.

Some of the variables to consider are container or valise (isn't a valise raft going to get buried in the cockpit locker and be impossible to get out in an emergency?), and cheap eg Seago, or expensive eg Forties. One thought I had was that a cheap liferaft and an EPIRB are similar money to an expensive one.

At this stage, we only cruise in coastal waters, but we are planning to go across to Ireland in the next two or three years.

I'd appreciate your experiences and logic in selecting your liferaft. Are there any particular brands that you would recommend.

Many thanks,
Jon

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Novice on 28/02/2004 22:07 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[webcraft]

The liferaft you buy should be for the number of people you expect to use it. A six man liferaft with four people in it is less stable than a four man liferaft with four people in it.

Many people cruise UK and Irish coastal waters without a liferaft at all . . . there are other options, dual purpose dinghies etc . . . the only real coastal cruising circumstance when a liferaft will save your life is a sudden dramatic sinking, eg after a collision at night with a submerged container.


We don't have a liferaft yet and will probably circumnavigate Ireland this year without one. Next year however we hope to cross Biscay . . . for me, that is the personal boundary and we will have one before we make that trip.

Then, it will be an expensive one - possibly second hand a few years old but serviced. Cheap rafts do not generally have a very good record in real life survival situations. At the very least you need a double floor, self-erecting canopy, a well thought out entry system and a self-erecting canopy.

All IMHO, but you did ask . . .


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[Steve Clayton]

Hi Jon,

can I suggest you do the one day sea survival course. You will learn so much that at the end of the course you will know exactly what to look for in the liferaft that is right for you (and there is little point in having it if you don't know how to use it!)

Regards,

Steve
(another SO owner)





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[Peppermint]

What is likely to drive you into a liferaft. My opinion is that fire or a catastrophic hull breach would be the only reason. You might use it to recover a MOB or to use as a platform to winch an injured crewmember of to helicopter but really unless you are unlucky you'll never use it.

I'd look at your cruising area before deciding to buy.

If like most people, you cruise local waters at weekends when there's plenty of other boats about you could be wasting your money. You can hire one in for your longer trips.

Then you want to consider where your going to keep it.

Canisters on deck in a dedicated position are the best but they take up a fair bit of room, are easily stolen and being heavy items do slightly effect the stability of smaller boats say under 35ft.

The soft packed raft stored in a locker or below suites the smaller boat better. With a bit of thought you can prevent it being buried in the locker, it's lighter and a bit cheaper which might allow you to buy a better quality raft.

Other considerations are clearly is this the best use of your safety budget. If you've money left after your happy that your other safety equipment, the stuff that stops you needing a liferaft, is perfect then buy one. If you sail in the channel or other popular, busy, sailing areas and you can signal help perhaps you only need to increase your survival time by a few hours at the most. If thats the case a 405 EPIRB, perhaps some survival suits ( you can buy ex north sea oil industry ones quite cheaply ) and the dinghy would not only be more economical on both pocket and storage space but would be more flexible.

Do go on the Sea Survival Course before you buy. It's an eye opener about quality and equipment levels in rafts.

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[Robin]

You might want to do a forum search on this as there has been a lot of discussion previously.

The two camps are 1) You should use the smallest possible for your normal crew because of stability, too few in a bigger raft risks it turning over and 2) That there are reasons other than the Perfect Storm for taking to a raft and that 4 people do not easily fit into a 4 person raft.

My view (and I have never used one in anger) is that stability of rafts has improved from Fastnet 79 days and that in any case anyway many of the yachts abandoned in favour of rafts actually remained afloat, thus the raft was deployed too early. Other reasons for abandoning to a raft would be collision (either with a ship or perhaps a submerged container, or rocks even) or fire on board.

Our choice (and this is a personal choice not a definitive answer) was to go for a Plastimo 6 person raft, with double floor and self erecting canopy etc to RORC spec, cannister type and pushpit mounted on a purpose designed cradle. We are just two on board normally with a rare increase to four. Four people only fit into a 4 person raft if they are sitting upright with their knees round their chins, picture what would happen if one or more were injured, and where do you put grab bags and other essential survival gear that you might want to take if there is time. What happens if you have 6 on board and only a 4 person raft - draw straws or sit on each other's laps?

You have to make your own decision related to what risks you perceive. I cannot imagine abandoning a big solid 41ft boat for a flimsy raft unless a) we step UP into it b) to escape a fire. I do not expect to abandon at sea because of storm conditions, more likely might be collision or fire, so the stability question is perhaps less relevant.

The choice is yours!

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[Talbot]

If buying a liferaft, there is always a major dilemma on the size.
The number for the trip,
The maximum number that can be carried onboard, or
The average number carried onboard.
Advice is that it should be sized for the number of people onboard, but that is puerile as you cannot be forever changing the liferaft to cater for differences in crew sizes. One of the reasons stated is that by making like sardines you share the warmth - fine in cold climates, but better to have space blanket or survival suits, and absolutely essential to have a double floor on the raft. The next reason is that if you are all tightly packed in then you will not be thrown around as much. Again that is reasonable if it is really rough, but you can have the interior of the raft equipped with rope that segments the raft, and use of rope to secure you into your section during the really rough part. There is also a suggestion that insufficient people in a larger raft will make it more susceptible to capsize. That may be true if a small number of people in a large raft gather together in one corner, However they have to be sufficiently stable to enable you to climb in initially, and if there is any possibility of having to use the raft for extended periods then a larger raft would be better as it would enable each person to have some personal space and remove one of the causes of loss of morale.
As to which raft to purchase - take a good look at all the different ones inflated at a boat show. Some of them I would not get in even if it was the last resort, whereas the most expensive are guaranteed for 12 years. I decided to buy an 8 man Avon with a full ocean survival pack secondhand (but still in guarantee) and it was cheaper than a very much less robust new one. I would have preferred a 6 man as my normal crew is 2-4, although I have 7 berths, but I wanted an avon in a canister - but these are not light weight.
At the end of the day, each decision is a compromise which only you can assess. However, I would fully endorse the recommendation to carry out a sea survival course. Furthermore, when you raft is serviced arrange to go and see it fully inflated.
Good luck /forums/images/icons/smile.gif


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[Peppermint]

Re: Don\'t get bogged down

in this how many bodies thing you might need a bit of space. The current advice is to take just about anything that moves that isn't sharp, with you into the raft if there's time to gather your kit. For example taking your life rings gives you something to sit on that gets your arse of the floor but anything you think might be useful should get slung in. After all you can always sling it out again.

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[charles_reed]

Firstly getting into the liferaft is very much the last thing you do, and probably only when you have a fire or a catastrophic collision.

Personally having once take to a liferaft I have decided death by hypothermia or drowning are far preferable by far to death by seasickness.

First is it necessary - all Cat 1 French boats have to have a liferaft - and that I'd agree with ie oceanic passages. Most liferafts carried on Brit/European boats are superfluous and in your case probably even more so - having cruised the Irish Sea and Western Approaches myself for about 10 years, you're in such a "covered" area that it's unneccessary.

Secondly size - most liferafts will support twice the number for which they are rated - average time from Mayday to rescue, post 406 EPIRB 8.4 hours, before 8.5 days (USCG figures). So for 4-6 crew go for a 4 man raft.

Third raft categorisation. So called "Coastal" rafts, at about £550-£650 are, IHMO a waste of time having neither sufficient freeboard, buoyancy or protection for anything but ditching in a flat calm (OK if you've had to abandon in case of a fire but adequate forefighting might be a superior investment). Get one with double (not just insulated) floor, canopy, strobe - in fact to SOLAS spec (Virtually none meet this mainly due to lack of water, still etc in the packs). Outstandingly best makers are Zodiac (Avon owners), BfA, Beaufort, the rest have to be appraised on their merits but mostly fairly tacky.

Fourthly packing - don't get too large a raft and do mount it securely where the weakest of your crew can deploy it. However don't have it so exposed (transom mount) as for it to be washed overboard if you get pooped: a Beneteau lost a crewman and capsized due to just this in Biscay Nov 2000. Probably best is a canister, tho' if you have a valise in a designed stowage (Wauquiez & Ovni) it's as good.

In your case I'd recommend a good 406 EPIRB, hire the liferaft for your long trips, until you're regularly doing >65-70 hours trips out of sight of land.

Don't forget - the capital cost of the liferaft is the least of your costs, after the first 2/3 years they need servicing every year (and for a properly equipped 4-man raft that's about £200pa including replaceables). After 10/12 years it's best to replace altogether so roughly true costing is about £250 pa plus your original investment.

Amusing but sobering story - a global-cruising couple had their canister liferaft serviced in the Far East, sent it for another service when they got back to Europe and found nothing inside but the correct weight of stones and old packing.

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[3reefs]

Hiring vs buying

As stated by another contributor, most of us do most of our boating in circumstances where a liferaft is a waste of space.

Just wondering if it also a waste of money. 1,000 quids to purchase, then service it every 3 seasons or so for (say) 150 quid. Then sell it aged 7 years for 250 or so.

This is an average outlay of around 150 pounds each year. I am beginning to think that hiring a raft every other year for the summer cruise might make more sense.

Look forward to comments.

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[milltech]

I don't want to get into which liferaft, as I sell them on the makers say-so and have never used one, nor would I advise if they are essential or not in different circumstances.

However I used to sail with scratch crews and people from Crewseekers etc. and I always felt that I'd be culpable in some way if I took them out without things like lifejackets and liferafts on board and in-date. You have to be so careful these days.

So if you're cruising with anyone outside your own family I think it would make sense to have one aboard.

<hr width=100% size=1>John
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.allgadgets.co.uk>http://www.allgadgets.co.uk</A>

 

[William_H]

Here in West Australia there are often seen a orange plastic dinghy with hold straps around the outside and double floor which I understans is accepted in commercial circumstanxces as a liferaft or at least a emergency float. I imagine this kind of dinghy is available in UK. The advantages are that it is not inflatated so does not require expensive servicing and doubles as a dinghy which you probably have to carry anyway.. Provision of o canopy and emergency pack may provide a better alternative to liferaft. Of course there are many reasons you need a liferaft that don't relate to good sense. ie to meet yacht race requirements government regulations or to satisfy a spouse but I agree with all the contributors that a liferaft is the last resort and don't imagine it is safe it is only better than a burninmg hulk or a hull dissapearing below the surface. I wopuild suggest go to some trouble to make the boat unsinkable with bulkheads bouyancy etc. and try to make it all fireproof. Happy sailing will

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[Piers]

Jon,

Try calling a guy who has helped many forumites - John Baker of Nationwide. Very helpful, very knowledgable, and keen on pricing as well. 07885 631 066.

By the way, if a raft says it's a 4, it's a 4 (not a 2). And underfilling a raft can be a hazard in itself in a wind or emotional seas - it can easily tip over!

So goog advice is paramount.

All the best....

<hr width=100% size=1>Piers du Pré
http://www.dupre.co.uk

 

[dulcibella]

It's worth considering a Tinker Tramp with gas bottles and the liferaft mods (cover + drogue) - expensive new but you will find very good prices for slightly used.

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