Liferaft experience

[AntarcticPilot]

You really need to look at the accounts of actual deployments then you may realise how unsuitable an inflated dinghy is as a life support system. Almost all liferaft deployments are in adverse conditions where a dinghy would be useless. There are examples of dinghies being used, Robertsons and Baileys being the best known. However in both cases the boats sank slowly after collisions with whales so there was plenty of time for preparations and in both cases the dinghy was a complement to the liferaft, not a substitute.

Neither of these cases has much connection with what happens in our coastal waters. Ocean sailing is very different and requires different thinking about survival in the event of foundering. Even then when you look at accounts it is clear that no two events are the same and success in survival depends on the crew making the best use of what they have - plus a big slice of luck. Unfortunately we rarely find out about the failures.

The Robertsons survived DESPITE the failure of their liferaft; the seams failed fairly quickly and they ended up depending on their dinghy, which they enhanced by cannibalizing some of the tubes of the liferaft. Dougal Robertson later advocated the use of navigable survival vessels and deprecated the use of unnavigable liferafts - however, that was before modern GMDSS systems such as EPIRBs and DSC. But of course, there are cases on record where EPIRBs did not function for one reason or another - Cheeki Rafiki recently (though the crews' PLBs did function).

The seams of liferafts do seem to be a weak point; there was a report on these forums a year or two back of a liferaft failing when deployed off Spitzbergen becaise the seams failed.

 

[fisherman]

My Plastimo deflated substantially over a day or two, the man at Cosalt told me to expect up to 20% deflation per day.

 

[Tranona]

The Robertsons survived DESPITE the failure of their liferaft; the seams failed fairly quickly and they ended up depending on their dinghy, which they enhanced by cannibalizing some of the tubes of the liferaft. Dougal Robertson later advocated the use of navigable survival vessels and deprecated the use of unnavigable liferafts - however, that was before modern GMDSS systems such as EPIRBs and DSC. But of course, there are cases on record where EPIRBs did not function for one reason or another - Cheeki Rafiki recently (though the crews' PLBs did function).

The seams of liferafts do seem to be a weak point; there was a report on these forums a year or two back of a liferaft failing when deployed off Spitzbergen becaise the seams failed.

That illustrates precisely the point i was trying to make about the resourcefulness of the crew in ocean survival. It is not however representative of most recorded deployments in UK and coastal waters as a sinking like that one would probably have been dealt with by a shore based rescue before the vessel sank, or survivors would have been picked up very quickly.

The main point is that a dinghy is not a suitable survival capsule in the sort of extreme conditions in which most founderings occur leaving crew to abandon ship.

 

[Sybarite]

Once the raft begins to deflate you get a hollow in the floor where water collects. The Ocean Safety raft referred to above had a foot pump which is virtually unusable in these conditions. You have to hold it against your chest and pump like that - hoping you haven't got a broken arm or ribs...

 

[Mad Pad]

Yes I have,in 1975 180 miles off Land's End.
I will try and find my article about it and post it here.
Mad Pad

 

[prv]

Once the raft begins to deflate you get a hollow in the floor where water collects.

I would have thought that would apply immediately - surely no raft is rigid enough for the weight of a person not to pull the floor down at all?

I would always assume that if there’s water in the raft (which there will be unless you stepped neatly into it from a dry deck in calm conditions) you will be sitting in it.

Pete

 

[fisherman]

I would have thought that would apply immediately - surely no raft is rigid enough for the weight of a person not to pull the floor down at all?

I would always assume that if there’s water in the raft (which there will be unless you stepped neatly into it from a dry deck in calm conditions) you will be sitting in it.

Pete

In extreme conditions the training is to pee in the raft and bail it out later when it's cold, to avoid opening the canopy, and losing heat.

 

[[163233]]

In extreme conditions the training is to pee in the raft and bail it out later when it's cold, to avoid opening the canopy, and losing heat.

There seems to be a law of forums that any survival discussion eventually ends up with someone doing something gross with urine.

 

[fisherman]

There seems to be a law of forums that any survival discussion eventually ends up with someone doing something gross with urine.

It's down to my pistakorial background.

 

[Mad Pad]

Here we go , my time in a liferaft.
You will have to zoom in to read it.
Thanks,
Mad Pad

 

[dom]

View attachment 73776
Here we go , my time in a liferaft.
You will have to zoom in to read it.
Thanks,
Mad Pad

Wow, what an extraordinary story and excellently told - the penknife bit was really clever.

Emphasises the importance of having lots of means to attract attention, warm gear, and keeping cool.

But I have to ask, a 55’ proa in 50kts, guessing that wind wasn’t forecast? You do of course recommend not sailing them!

 

[Mad Pad]

Thanks Dom....

I sometimes wonder why I bother to post on this forum.

The OP asked for FIRST HAND experiences of people using life rafts for real.
So out of about 90 posts so far, I can see only 3 relating to the OP's question,
the rest being 2nd hand accounts,

OZ 1
Robert J
Mad Pad..(Me)

If the other posters would like to start a new thread titled say "stories of life raft survival " fine , but don't use this thread in fairness to the OP.

Please don't post here again unless it has relevance to the OP's initial question,

Mad Pad

PS Error in my 1st post , I was only 80 miles off Lands End not 180, but bearing it in mind I was hardly going to swim ashore not a lot of difference.(50.40 north 7.1west from memory)

 

[Daydream believer]

Thanks Dom....

I sometimes wonder why I bother to post on this forum.

The OP asked for FIRST HAND experiences of people using life rafts for real.
So out of about 90 posts so far, I can see only 3 relating to the OP's question,
the rest being 2nd hand accounts,

If the other posters would like to start a new thread titled say "stories of life raft survival " fine , but don't use this thread in fairness to the OP.

Please don't post here again unless it has relevance to the OP's initial question,
Mad Pad

Perhaps it would be better if you did not post then; because in post #6 the Op later went on to say----- " With the type of sailing I do, I am just wondering how long I will have to rely on it if the worst was to happen"-------- which sort of opens up a wider discussion, does it not?
That led to various comments & an interesting thread. Just because you do not like the idea of thread drift does not mean that the others cannot engage in general discussion based around the original concept. This after all, is how conversation within a group ought to develop.

 

[neil1967]

Some one has already mentioned the Wahkuna, which a friend of mine was on. The MAIB report is here: https://assets.publishing.service.g...d4c100000bb/nedlloyd_vespucci_and_wahkuna.pdf They were in the liferaft for 5.5 hours in the Channel, in fog - rather scary in the shipping lane! Their EPIRB failed and they could not send a mayday as the mast had come down before they abandoned their sinking yacht. Eventually picked up when their flares were sighted. Clearly a rare event, but it seems unlikely they would have survived without the liferaft.

 

[fisherman]

I did a firts aid course, the guy delivering it was in the early RN liferaft test, they were set loose off Plymouth and then the fog came down, lost for several days. I remember that from elsewhere, but can't find a record.

 

[dom]

Perhaps it would be better if you did not post then; because in post #6 the Op later went on to say----- " With the type of sailing I do, I am just wondering how long I will have to rely on it if the worst was to happen"-------- which sort of opens up a wider discussion, does it not?That led to various comments & an interesting thread. Just because you do not like the idea of thread drift does not mean that the others cannot engage in general discussion based around the original concept. This after all, is how conversation within a group ought to develop.

For whatever reason a number of people with fascinating and detailed knowledge of the sharp-end of sea survival have pulled back from this thread; unwilling to battle their points against the sofa mob. After dozens of generally reasonable musing/generalisation (ex Fisherman who notably wouldn't go to sea without one!) MadPad's interesting post detailed up close and personal the unraveling of a real-life case. It was met with ......................silence. Strange to say the least?

 

[RupertW]

For whatever reason a number of people with fascinating and detailed knowledge of the sharp-end of sea survival have pulled back from this thread; unwilling to battle their points against the sofa mob. After dozens of generally reasonable musing/generalisation (ex Fisherman who notably wouldn't go to sea without one!) MadPad's interesting post detailed up close and personal the unraveling of a real-life case. It was met with ......................silence. Strange to say the least?

Not really. MadPad SHOUTS, he's rude and he's told everybody to stop posting unless they have a first hand experience to tell.

 

[Tranona]

Thanks Dom....

I sometimes wonder why I bother to post on this forum.

The OP asked for FIRST HAND experiences of people using life rafts for real.
So out of about 90 posts so far, I can see only 3 relating to the OP's question,
the rest being 2nd hand accounts,

OZ 1
Robert J
Mad Pad..(Me)

If the other posters would like to start a new thread titled say "stories of life raft survival " fine , but don't use this thread in fairness to the OP.

Please don't post here again unless it has relevance to the OP's initial question,

Mad Pad

PS Error in my 1st post , I was only 80 miles off Lands End not 180, but bearing it in mind I was hardly going to swim ashore not a lot of difference.(50.40 north 7.1west from memory)

Not sure the point you are trying to make. While your account of your experience is interesting it could not be further from the OPs situation. First it took place over 40 years ago. Second why do you claim that it could happen to any yachtsman? - Might have been appropriate at the time, although even then how many sailed in big experimental proas in high winds?

The accounts from those who survive extreme conditions are always uplifting but offer little for those of us, who like the OP would never get into that situation. That is what the few accounts of founderings in our coastal waters over the last 30 years or so (with one or two exceptions) tell us - most are not "ordinary" sailing trips that go wrong, but are caused by those 3 things I identified earlier - collision, extreme weather or structural failure and none involve husband and wife crew.

This does not mean that such ordinary crews do not get into difficulties, but the massive improvements in communications and rescue services means that incidents get nipped in the bud. This does not mean that there are no lives lost, but they are invariably lone sailors "lost at sea" where inevitably there is rarely any definitive account of what went wrong.

What I find ironic is that as the chances of needing a liferaft in "ordinary" sailing has reduced, sales of them has increased as seemingly has the agonising over whether to have one or not.

As to direct experience of using a raft for real, it would be a very short and sterile thread if contributions were only allowed from those who have. Indeed there is very little to learn from the accounts except that if they work and you get found you survive and the period between deciding to take to the raft (or having no option) to being picked up is usually traumatic and unpleasant.

 

[Praxinoscope]

I really found Mad Pad’s comments odd, the whole essence of a thread is that it tends to weave, and in those weaves salinent facts can be found. Tranona’s post is a well argued thread and covers most of what I would have to say.
The lack of direct experience of liferaft use rather supports my earlier post that there are probably only a few launches of liferafts in UK waters in a year, and thet few of us have first hand experience of using one in anger.
That we haven’t used one in anger does not necessarily negate our views on the advisability of carrying a liferaft or experience in having undertaken practical survival at sea courses.
It would be a very thin gruel if only those with first hand experience were allowed to comment.

 

[awol]

I can't say I used my raft in anger, more in embarrassment! The wind was getting up well above what was forecast and I was beating with storm jib, reefed main and a spring tide under me towards Clachnaharry. I saw 2 bigger waves approaching, the first we went over, the second went over us and when I raised my head the liferaft was floating past washed off the foredeck. Of course it inflated and I found myself single-handed, hove-to in a near gale, about 20 miles from any haven with a fully inflated 6-man raft.
So, what now skipper?
I know how it was resolved but what would you have done?

(1st hand experience with a life-raft, does that pass the MadPad test?)