LifeJackets - is everyone a pansy these days?

Brendan Brendan Brendan ... you can't just go around stating that you "wear a drysuit with suitable kit" these days ... you have to specify what that kit is ... and the colour of the drysuit .. most important that bit ... oh - does it have built-in braces?
Do you wear the old tube socks or do you have hiking socks with heals in that don't end up slipping down your feet? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Have a look at the link I posted earlier Windfinder. It seems to suggest that people more often than not drown rather than die from the cold.


[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it said the cold caused the drowning. Look at the Ouzos. Even in Summer water temps wearing life jackets they still died.


[ QUOTE ]
But believe me, it is easier said than done when there's much of a sea running, especially without a lifejacket.

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe you? I'll judge you on your posts and nothing you've said so far has made me think you're a reliable source of information. I can't imagine you spend more time in lumpy cold water than me but if you do I'd love to hear about it. (I surf & windsurf)

[ QUOTE ]
But here's a question: How many boats do you see with jackstays in a position so that if one was to fall over the side, their harness will drag them through the water? How easy is breathing then?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd rather be atached to the boat than bobbing in freezing cold water at un unknown spot behind the boat hoping for rescue. Even in summer. Dragged? Your mates are haddly going to carry on sailing. You'll have to do better than that to convince me not to clip on!

"I won't apologise for being a self righteous moron. The experiences I have had clearly indicate the importance of lifejackets and I choose to wear one."

Yet in the air you choose to also carry a dry suit and an EPIRB?

[ QUOTE ]
So please don't mind me if I choose to put posts on here that might just get people thinking about survival in the water in a bit more detail.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your post was intended to do the opposite! Wear a LJ and it will be ok was the message!
 
[ QUOTE ]
I ride a bike as well and dont wear a crash helmet, tsk tsk. But wear one if I consider conditions make it advisable

[/ QUOTE ]

Which was always my view until I came off and was off work for a couple of days with concussion. Since then, I have always worn one. This thread is very much like the debates on Motorcycle helmets. I was always for using a helmet but against legislation.

In answer to some of the other posts, I would agree a harness has equal importance and once LJs get to Harness sizes then can't see the point in not wearing.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I would agree a harness has equal importance .......

[/ QUOTE ]


That is a great example of the concern that several here have been trying to raise. Under most circumstances on a yacht, a properly used harness is MASSIVELY more important than a lifejacket. Wear a LJ or don't, that is your call, but understand its limitations and real value.
 
I've fallen off and been knocked off my bike over the years - even spending 3 years cycling through london suburbs (a car door was opened in front of me). At no point have I considered it necessary to wear a cycle helmet whilst on the road ... off-road is different - when you are cycling at speed down a dirt track (trying to catch up with brother) you feel a lot more vulnerable ..
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'd rather be atached to the boat than bobbing in freezing cold water at un unknown spot behind the boat hoping for rescue. Even in summer. Dragged? Your mates are haddly going to carry on sailing. You'll have to do better than that to convince me not to clip on!

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't trying to persuade you not to clip on, quite the opposite, What I am saying is that on some boats the jackstay/harness combination is not without hazard.

[ QUOTE ]
Yet in the air you choose to also carry a dry suit and an EPIRB?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't carry them, I wear them and not through choice, although my attire would be no different if I did have the choice.

[ QUOTE ]
Your post was intended to do the opposite! Wear a LJ and it will be ok was the message!

[/ QUOTE ]

My message has never been to say that the lifejacket is one stop fix all. But what I do believe is that a simple lifejacket is the most cost effective way of dramatically increasing your chances should you end up swimming.

I thought that my experience as a SAR pilot and a career in the diving industry might bring something constructive to the forum, but clearly not.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I thought that my experience as a SAR pilot and a career in the diving industry might bring something constructive to the forum, but clearly not

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't let the voice of one contributor put you off ... can I ask ... off the top of your head .. what is the % of SAR that involve a person in the water (or recovered from the water) ... ?
 
[ QUOTE ]
... can I ask ... off the top of your head .. what is the % of SAR that involve a person in the water (or recovered from the water) ... ?

[/ QUOTE ]
And perhaps also add the % which are persons that have <span style="color:red">fallen off</span> a pleasure boat longer than, say, 30 foot (er, I know the approx answer but I would like the expert to admit to it /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif).

Perhaps he can also tell us how many of those he has personally attended?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps he can also tell us how many of those he has personally attended?

[/ QUOTE ] Surely that is irrelevant!
 
Not particularly linking this post to you CS, but I am a bit puzzled why some of the posts on this thread are so aggressive? Surely, friendly debate, without trying to score points off each other would be more constructive?

I have already brought up the point of badly and ineffectually installed jack stays, the webbing down each side deck is the worse in my opinion, though the webbing is better than cable when installed in that postion, Seems to me ( and I advocate being clipped on) that the harness and life jacket combination could be the best solution all round? I have two of these, my own LJ is a harness and LJ combo, at 275 Newtons, (yep I am a bit of a fat bastid) /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I don't always wear that one though, I really prefer just the harness, but I prefer the combo when alone, in a bit of a blow.

In British waters, I feel that staying out of the briny, is the better option, and that is easy to do, if your harness line is the right length, and you jack stay is properly installed, It also pays to have strong points around the boat that you can clip onto directly, sans jack stay. I am talking STRONG points here, ones that are designed to have the weight of a crewman heaved against them violently and suddenly.

So come on, less of the point scoring eh? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I suspect that much of the aggressiveness arises from a lurking fear of legislation. The posts in favour of automatic LJ-wearing could be seen as playing into the hands of the nanny state. It's already happened in Ireland...
 
[ QUOTE ]
I suspect that much of the aggressiveness arises from a lurking fear of legislation. The posts in favour of automatic LJ-wearing could be seen as playing into the hands of the nanny state. It's already happened in Ireland...

[/ QUOTE ]

Bad hair day Paul! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You never know on here it seems to me, but I hope that is all it is. Disregarding the aggro posts, I have always based my "safety at sea" on my own experience, which is a good many years, however, this thread has given me food for thought. I haven't always agreed with all the posters, but the occasional re-appraisal of things is not a bad idea from time to time?

Should the interfering busy bodies, ever decree that wearing LJs at all times will be compulsory, I think I will just have a few tee shirt made up with an LJ printed on them! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, pretty near impossible to police that one effectively I would have thought?
 
I could be wrong (but havent got time to find the post) so corect me if i'm wrong. Did one of the posts not say the Irish law required there to be enough LJ's for everyone onboard and only under 16s (I think) had to wear them. Surely everyone is already complying with this anyway.
 
[ QUOTE ]
the Irish law required there to be enough LJ's for everyone onboard and only under 16s (I think) had to wear them. Surely everyone is already complying with this anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes - I think that is what was said ... don't know why you'd make a cutoff at 16 ... what has youth got to do with it - surely it is experience, confidence and the conditions ...
 
The Irish law depends on vessel size:

STATUTORY INSTRUMENT. No. 259 of 2004

Merchant Shipping (pleasure craft) (lifejackets and operation) (safety) Regulations 2004

6. (1) A person on a pleasure craft (other than a personal watercraft) of less than 7.0 metres length overall shall wear a suitable personal flotation device or lifejacket while on board an open craft or while on the deck of decked craft, other than when the craft is made fast to the shore or at anchor.

(2) The master or owner of a pleasure craft (other than a personal watercraft) shall take all reasonable steps to ensure that a person who has not attained the age of 16 years complies with paragraph (1) of this Regulation.

(3) The master or owner of a pleasure craft (other than a personal watercraft), which is not a craft referred to in paragraph (1) of this Regulation, shall take all reasonable steps to ensure that a person who has not attained the age of 16 years wears a suitable personal flotation device or lifejacket while on board an open craft or while on the deck of a decked craft, other than when it is made fast to the shore or at anchor.


- this may have been superseded, but if so it's only likely to have become even more prescriptive!
 
Oh right, so they can fly about on a jet ski at 40 or more knots and not wear an LJ??? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

WTF!!!!!???
 
Er, I think there's another section on PWCs!
Point is, the threat of politicians interfering in this issue is not so far-fetched as one might think - and that may be why some folks get a bit hot under the collar about it.
 
Well you know what they say..................




There is only one thing worse than a child molester..........












and that is a politician! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif






Unprincipalled liers, the lot of 'em! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

S
Making Beading to fit a bend and having a 60° vertical profile.
Replies
5
Views
262
STATUE
S
ari
What is your lifejacket policy?
3 4 5
Replies
84
Views
2K
rafiki_
rafiki_
B
Halberg Rassey 31
2 3 4
Replies
71
Views
2K
ashtead
ashtead
D
Nmea experts - a tricky one
Replies
11
Views
350
Refueler
Refueler
Irish Rover
Compact Binoculars 8 x 32
Replies
13
Views
573
Egret
E

Share this page

Top