leaving diesels ticking over

[stubate]

well we certainly got the debate going, (see oil pressure light) from all the wealth of real world info that has come in we can safely say that leaving the engine ticking over wont reduce it to scrap and also that the correct oils must be used, and that oils have been refined to the point that varnishing is not a problem any more. the whole point of my post was to engage us in this sort of debate, bring in a wealth of real world knowledge and stop this silly shooting from the hip which tends to perpetuate facts which where perhaps relevant 20 yrs ago, and by the way any oil field workers working for me who treated the equipment with a cavalier attitude (which was one of the comments made) would have had their hi priced arses run off, no industrial tribunals in africa or the middle east.
stu

 

[ccscott49]

"Hi priced arses run off" I love it when you get physical!!

 

[stubate]

as i said earlier i learned to speak "american" with a texan accent but i dont think the moderator would like the real american saying "i'll run his hi priced m*****f*****g arse off" if he gives me any more s**t !!
do you think we could open a debate on the merits of direct speak? how the texans, by the use of simple old american saxon language, cut costs and time?
stu

 

[ccscott49]

I don't think the forum is quite ready for that colourful a language yet, but I'm working on it! I'll have a queit word with Kim at the boat show!

 

[seaesta]

Most people seem to be getting conditioned NOT to speak their mind becuase of all the problems they get from the politically correct brigade. These can be serious e.g. the Chief Nurse who got fired for reffering to a well known novel title about people in a woodpile. We really do need to say what we think or go MAD so for GOD'S SAKE SAY IT LIKE VICTOR MELDREW. e.g. "If you are stupid enough to leave a diesel running on tickover all day, can stand the smell, waste the fuel, pioson the environment and wear out the engine rather than starting her up when you need her then GOOD LUCK to you matey!"

 

[stubate]

AAAARGH !!
you have missed the point, the politically correct ones say that if you leave it ticking over it will "destroy it" i say it wont.
if you want to start the donk to warm her up, get the oil circulated etc and charge the battery it wont destroy it which is what the shoot from the hips say, and of course the people who come to this forum not knowing anything about diesel engines believe them and the myth gets perpetuated more.
victor

 

[steve_cronin]

So bore glaze is a myth then?

Keeps a lot of marine engineers going in gold top around our coasts not to mention the London Taxi garage in south London (sitting in queues for hours on end).

My friend who is an estate developer is constantly having to get dumper, digger & mixer engines "glaze busted" because his workers will insist upon leaving them running off load for long periods. Even your little garden PETROL engines can suffer from it if left to idle regularly for long periods. It affects diesels more though as they rely on high compression for ignition.

My father trained at Perkins Engines Peterborough in the 30's & 50's and would have cut the legs from under me if I'd treated an engine like that. I can remember as a child braking the glaze on many an engine prior to re-assembly.

Steve Cronin

 

[stubate]

Re: So bore glaze is a myth then?

30/ 40 years ago they still used straight 30 or 40 weight engine oil with hardly any additives and used to rebore every winter, the only time ive glaze busted a bore is when i was fitting new piston rings and that was because the bore was too shiny to bed the rings in.
time and oil engineering have moved on.
zzzzzzz zzzzzzz

 

[steve_cronin]

WE\'ll have to agree to differ on that then...

..since our experiences are obviously not the same.

Steve Cronin

 

[stubate]

Re: WE\'ll have to agree to differ on that then...

ok but at least its given a lot of people food for thought and perhaps the newbies can make up their minds from it
i am at the mo trying to source a heater core from a car similar to the old mini ones with an enclosed fan and stand alone (can you remember the optional extra that bolted on?) and splice this into the calorifier circuit so that i can use this to heat the cabin
stu

 

[BarryH]

Re: WE\'ll have to agree to differ on that then...

Hillman Imps had the same set up. If your lucky you could find one in a scrap yard. All the valves are on the back of the unit, so all you'll need is the pipe to plumb it in.

Prey tell, why would you want to leave a diesel at tickover for a long period?

 

[ccscott49]

Re: WE\'ll have to agree to differ on that then...

Old landrovers had them aswell, that might be a source for you to try. As for the ticking over, when in high latitudes, if you dont leave the engine running, you'll never start it again, as the oil freezes and gets so thick you cant pump it. we have sump heaters, coolant heaters and diesel tank heaters, to stop it all freezing up, the oil gets so thick, the oil pump drives shear, antifreeze doesn't (anti I mean). This happens very quickly at minus 30, with a wind chill of minus 43! In Africa they steal the batteries, so you start them, then take the batteries off, after switching off the alternators of course.

 

[ccscott49]

But what do you do when you have to leave it running or it will never start again?

 

[vyv_cox]

The topic is far more complicated than your superficial comments suggest. The tribology of the piston/bore interface is only beginning to be understood by specialists at the forefront of chemo-tribological research. In simple terms, the lubricant base number is designed for operation within a certain temperature range. The higher the operating temperature and the heavier the load, then the higher the base number needs to be. This assumes diesel fuel, either low sulphur or not makes little difference. Marine fuels with very high sulphur require far higher base numbers to combat the inorganic acid combustion products.

If an engine that requires an oil with a particular base number for full power operation is left running on tickover or at low load, the temperature at the rings will be far lower than intended. The consequence is that the basic component of the additive will not be soaked up by the oxidative/acidic combustion products and an alkaline condition will result. Wear rates can then become very high.

On the other hand, if an oil with a low base number is specified for an engine primarily intended for use at tickover or low load, the interface of piston rings and bore will be close to neutral and therfore wear will be controlled. Operation at high power will create acidic conditions but this may not be harmful for short periods. It most certainly will if full power continues for some time. Piston ring and bore wear rates will increase and the acidity of the lubricant will corrode certain types of bearings.

I assume that the oil in your engines has been specified for the normal duty of tickover, thus accounting for the low wear and glazing. Otherwise, the bores would most certainly glaze. Bore glazing is a real problem and it has certainly not gone away in the past 15 years. It's nothing to do with the level of refining, it's about understanding what is happening inside the engine and how to compensate for it by well designed additive packages.

 

[mtb]

Re: WE\'ll have to agree to differ on that then...

Landrover S11 have a great heater with fan attatched also S111 which is better cos it's more protected, A40 Cambridge Farina in fact most of the Austin range of cars.
The Imp has a funny shaped box which is a pain .
There is a unit still being made for the Kit Car and after market stuff . Tepco 0158411575 should be able to supply .
Cheers
Mick


http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boats
I need a couple of oak tree's .. for me trawler

 

[seaesta]

Hmmm

Buy a new one?

 

[Avocet]

Any old Reliant has a small heater matrix in a small(ish) box. Also, there are various kit car specialists that sell this sort of thing - try Demon Tweaks, Merlin Motorsport or Europa. Post me a private message if none of these can help.

Also, if you want a water valve to turn it on and off, many old british cars had them but I think Volkswagen were the only modern manufacturer still using them a few years ago. Try a Golf of about 10 years old.

 

[seaesta]

What are you on -and can I have some?

 

[rich]

Re:SEAESTA no Profile

SO were is it, what are you, wot do you do?

rich )

 

[stubate]

why leave engine on tick over

i dont advocate leaving engine on tick over for the sake of it, this debate started because the "armchair experts" made statements to the effect that if you leave a diesel ticking over it will destroy it !!
i say it wont. there are circumstances where an engine needs to be started such as getting a charge into the battery, warming up and circulating oil, where possible, so that oil can get to the extremities where if left it will slowly drain away.
the postings of the less than knowledgable could frighten the newbies who know nothing about donks and perpetuate the myth that if you start the donk and let it charge the battery that it will self destruct !!

and in fact i am going to put a water powered heater into mine and if a cold spell comes along and i want to warm the cabin i will start the donk, and warm my little extremities.
knowing full, from personal experience, that the donk wont self destruct !!