Leaving and entering schengen countries Passport Question

[Sea Devil]

I have tried the official channels and got the response you fill in a form and post it ...

When I leave the UK from Lymington or Eastbourne for Cherbourg or Boulogne what is the process of clearing out?

When I leave the UK as a Brit in a Brit boat is there an online method of getting clearance?

 

[Graham376]

But surely that is no different to walking across a bridge or boarder,the problem is for those that can't transit a boarder that easily, eg those in Balearc islands or Canaries

Quite different, walking across a bridge to cross a border does not require a port of entry. AFAIK, Huelva is the nearest Spanish port to Algarve, many miles away. There is of course a marina (Ayamonte) on the river but it may not be a recognised entry point. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Graham376]

1 day in 1 day out

Not necessarily. According to EU, days in transit are not counted and transit could be driving from UK to Greece.

 

[Sea Devil]

Not necessarily. According to EU, days in transit are not counted and transit could be driving from UK to Greece.

Sorry you are right - that is for going to UK or entering Europe.

The official French line, when asked what people like me resident in France then drive to Spain - Portugal, is that we will not get our passports stamped and we are on our honour not to exceed the allowed 90 days in other EU countries!!!

 

[nortada]

Sadly this could really be a game changer.

It could also lead to a mega cock-up .

Divide and rule.

 

[nortada]

We have a particular problem which will be interesting for those based on or visiting Algarve and SW Spain. The Guadiana river national boundary is policed jointly by Portuguese and Spanish officials on the same boat. When on anchor, it's normal practice to dinghy ashore to either Spain or Portugal or both, in the same day. Will be interesting to see how it's handled. Even using the pontoons in either Spain or Portugal, there's regular cross border traffic.

Then we have the VRdSA - Ayamonte car/pedestrian ferry for those wishing to pop back and fore for a bit of shopping and the Back In Time zip-wire ride between Sanlucar (Spain) and Alcoutim (Portugal). Additionally, I here the long time plan for a bridge between Sanlucar and Alcoutim is back on

Remembering this is just a Brit and 3rd country issue, I suspect the whole thing will be filed in the 'Too Difficult Bin'. That is, provided you do not piss off the local officials.

 

[nortada]

ps, I understand folk, who have residency in an EU country, are permitted to discount their travel time to and from their host country against their 90 day allowance.

How big is the discount allowance

Who knows - how long is a bit of string

1 day in 1 day out

Not necessarily. According to EU, days in transit are not counted and transit could be driving from UK to Greece.

Just ordered my pony and trap and really looking forward to leisurely journeys from Portugal, through Spain, France, Belgium to catch the Ostend ferry to Harwich - estimated journey time 2 or 3 weeks (each way).?

 

[st599]

I have tried the official channels and got the response you fill in a form and post it ...

When I leave the UK from Lymington or Eastbourne for Cherbourg or Boulogne what is the process of clearing out?

When I leave the UK as a Brit in a Brit boat is there an online method of getting clearance?

To clear out of the UK, you currently use form C1331 - same form as you would use if heading to the Channel Islands.

To return you use the second part of the form, ring customs and ring border force.

There's an app/website in development for UK entry and exit, the Beta testers have posted on Scuttlebutt about how it works - before you leave you select a lat and long and a 15mins time window - the Border Force cutter will meet you.

 

[Graham376]

I here the long time plan for a bridge between Sanlucar and Alcoutim is back on

That's usually a pre-election promise which never happens

 

[nortada]

That's usually a pre-election promise which never happens

So true but this came up this week and as you know the elections were a few weeks back. Have to say, don’t think it will happen. A bridge from nowhere to nowhere.

There again Portugal is very good at spending EU money on doubtful infrastructure projects. Just look at all of the roundabouts on the N125 that link nothing to nothing.

Qustion is, without the U.K. cash in-put can The EU afford Portugal’s ambitions?

 

[newtothis]

So, the hypothetical question.

Uk passport, enter & leave before 90 days.
Few days later, Irish passport, enter & leave before 90 days.
Rinse & Repeat.

I'm wondering if it is possible to do something similar with my UK/NZ passports. Difference is that many countries give NZ 180 days already so could just hop between two countries, maybe, with odd trip to UK to get outta Schengen to restart the clocks.

 

[nortada]

I'm wondering if it is possible to do something similar with my UK/NZ passports. Difference is that many countries give NZ 180 days already so could just hop between two countries, maybe, with odd trip to UK to get outta Schengen to restart the clocks.

An interesting proposition. Will it workCould depend on how the centralised computer based SIS tracks you, by your passports (you become 2 separate entities) or by your personal details (you remain a single entity), who is deliberately exceeding both their U.K. and NZ time stay privileges.

If your ploy is sussed it could be suggested that you are deliberately committing fraud so you could then discover how fraudulent activities are dealt with by the EU.??

 

[newtothis]

An interesting proposition. Will it workCould depend on how the centralised computer based SIS tracks you, by your passports (you become 2 separate in entities) or by your personal details (you remain a single entity), who is deliberately exceeding both their U.K. and NZ time stay privileges.

If your ploy is sussed it could be suggested that you are deliberately committing fraud so you could then discover how fraudulent activities are dealt with by the EU.??

Not sure if dancing around between Spain and Greece for e.g. would be even breaking the law. 180 days Greece, 180 Spain, maybe three months UK then repeat. Not the freedom of movement that initially brought me to the UK only to see it sacrificed on the altar of nationalism, but better than nowt.

 

[nortada]

Not sure if dancing around between Spain and Greece for e.g. would be even breaking the law. 180 days Greece, 180 Spain, maybe three months UK then repeat. Not the freedom of movement that initially brought me to the UK only to see it sacrificed on the altar of nationalism, but better than nowt.

Unless you are an EU citizen or have residency in an EU state and you spend more than 90/180 days in the EU you are contravening the Schengen Regulations.

Yes, a work around could work.

Equally, if you pitch up at a Schengen Border and the computerized SIS signals that you have been in the EU for more than 90/180 days you may have some explaining to do.

A similar situation could arise for third county citizens who have EU residency if they enter the Schengen Zone in an EU country other than their host country and spend more than 90/180 days in the Schengen Zone and then attempt to leave from another EU country, other than their host country. Possibly their biometric EU residency permit will resolve this anomaly.

Only time will tell but given current relationships between the EU and UK (that is the politicians), I for one, will not be looking to play the system or push the boundaries.

To conclude on a positive note, following a conversation with SEF, I understand that the biometric residency permit will serve as an identity document so there will no longer any need to always carry your passport.

 

[newtothis]

Unless you are an EU citizen or have residency in an EU state and you spend more than 90/180 days in the EU you are contravening the Schengen Regulations.

Not entirely correct. NZ, for example, has bilateral arrangements with a number of EU member states that allow varying degrees of extension on top of the 90/180 rule. In Greece, Spain, France and Portugal, for example, this is another 90 days, so 180 in total. So, it would seem, without knowing for certain, that someone like me with NZ and UK passport could go to Spain for 180 days, come back to UK for 90 days to clear Schengen, then go back to Spain for 180 days. Effectively a 180/270 rule. Which is still rubbish c/f what we had less than three months ago but I'll take what I can get.

 

[billskip]

Not entirely correct. NZ, for example, has bilateral arrangements with a number of EU member states that allow varying degrees of extension on top of the 90/180 rule. In Greece, Spain, France and Portugal, for example, this is another 90 days, so 180 in total. So, it would seem, without knowing for certain, that someone like me with NZ and UK passport could go to Spain for 180 days, come back to UK for 90 days to clear Schengen, then go back to Spain for 180 days. Effectively a 180/270 rule. Which is still rubbish c/f what we had less than three months ago but I'll take what I can get.

If you are in Spain for more than 183 days you are considered as residential, that is the same for everybody.
This 90 or 180 days is for the Schengen zone not the individual countries within the zone,the individual countries within the Schengen zone can apply their own rules and restrictions as to visitation rights.

It seems to me people think FoM gives them the right to live where they want in the zone and not abide by the rules of that country.

Or maybe it's me that has got it all wrong.

 

[syvictoria]

It seems to me people think FoM gives them the right to live where they want in the zone and not abide by the rules of that country.

Or maybe it's me that has got it all wrong.

No. FoM provides the right to stay within other EU states for up to 6 months with essentially no strings attached. This is extremely desirable for those who wish to maintain lives in two different EU states, and for those who wish to travel extensively and slowly. Once the 6 months are up, it is easy for an EU resident to apply for residency in said state if they wish to stay longer.

 

[nortada]

No. FoM provides the right to stay within other EU states for up to 6 months with essentially no strings attached. This is extremely desirable for those who wish to maintain lives in two different EU states, and for those who wish to travel extensively and slowly. Once the 6 months are up, it is easy for an EU resident to apply for residency in said state if they wish to stay longer.

Where are these FoM rights that permit you to stay within other EU states for up to 6 months published

If true there would be no reason for a campaign to get the 90/180 extended to 183/365.

Debating the finer points after you have been in the Schengen Zone for longer than 90 days but are not a resident is great until, you are confronted by an official who doesn't agree your interpretation of the rules. Probably when you attempt to leave or enter the Schengen Zone.

Many countries do not have habeas corpus so operate on the principal of lock 'em up and we will sort it all out in good time.

In the boat context, I suspect a lien could be placed on the boat (saw this happen in the T2L fiasco), your passport impounded and you instructed to 'remain available' but more likely, you would politely told 'to depart' and not come back and for good measure your passport details, with the transgression, would be recorded in the Schengen data base for future reference.

No doubt it will all become clearer after a few months but I would rather not be the test case it revolves around.

Fortunately, I have residency so should be OK to operate between the UK and Portugal but will still have to observe 90/180 elsewhere. My question, given there are no frontiers in the Schengen Zone, how will anybody know where I have been The travelling time dispensation could give more room for maneuver.

 

[billskip]

nortada, your question, how do they know where you are or have been, well I think this is why it's been so easy to get away with living where you want, especially on a boat.
It's difficult to prove if you haven't crossed a border for 24 hours and returned.
I think this is going to get tougher across the schengen zone for everybody.

Individual countries, like Spain for example, will make rules to ensure other nationalities do not benefit from residence without registration.

syvictoria seems to think FoM is free of rules, restrictions and individual countries registration requirements.

The way I read it is that all people are restricted to 90 days with the then necessity to make some sort of visa application,depending on the specific countries restrictions.
As you say, up till now and as some say in the near future possibly nobody will take much notice, but that doesnt mean one has an entitlement

 

[nortada]

nortada, your question, how do they know where you are or have been, well I think this is why it's been so easy to get away with living where you want, especially on a boat.
It's difficult to prove if you haven't crossed a border for 24 hours and returned.
I think this is going to get tougher across the schengen zone for everybody.

Individual countries, like Spain for example, will make rules to ensure other nationalities do not benefit from residence without registration.

syvictoria seems to think FoM is free of rules, restrictions and individual countries registration requirements.

The way I read it is that all people are restricted to 90 days with the then necessity to make some sort of visa application,depending on the specific countries restrictions.
As you say, up till now and as some say in the near future possibly nobody will take much notice, but that doesnt mean one has an entitlement

All our experiences are based life before 1/1/21. On that day, for British passport holders, the world changed and there is no way to know how this new world will play out.

For the first time in living memory immigration officers (SEF) are continuously manning their office in the marina reception building, even though all vessel movements are prohibited. Could be a Covid measure but having chatted with the SEF police officers, who were very pissed off with this extra duty, I got the distinct impression that they were there in an immigration capacity.

To date the regular marina staff have recorded visiting vessel and crew detail, which they forwarded to SEF.

All very friendly and rather informal but I get the feeling things are changing so this is not the time to test the system.