Leaving and entering schengen countries Passport Question

[Graham376]

The rules on travel days in and out of the EU state that the day of travel is counted as part of the 90 days -

Not according to this, when I asked about driving to/from Portugal -

Thank you for contacting the Europe Direct Contact Centre and apologies for the late reply.

We have consulted the Directorate-General for Justice and Consumers (DG JUST). They can inform you that when transiting via another country than the Member State of residence, passports should not be stamped on entry/exit. Residence permit holders are not limited to the maximum period of stay of 90/180 days within the Schengen area as they have a right of residence going beyond these days in the Member State which issued the residence permit.

We hope you find this information useful. Please contact us again if you have other questions about the European Union, its activities or institutions.

It turns out I didn't have to worry anyway as I'm allowed 365 in Schengen, being married to and travelling with EU citizen wife.

 

[Sea Devil]

. They can inform you that when transiting via another country than the Member State of residence, passports should not be stamped on entry/exit. Residence permit holders are not limited to the maximum period of stay of 90/180 days within the Schengen area as they have a right of residence going beyond these days in the Member State which issued the residence permit.
It turns out I didn't have to worry anyway as I'm allowed 365 in Schengen, being married to and travelling with EU citizen wife.

Glad it's worked out!

I think, think that the statement refers to transiting from say France to Spain or Germany or.... and indeed my source says that my passport will not be stamped doing that.... However I suspect that when I go to the UK or return France it may be... and I would certainly have a problem if I went UK - Spain then drove to France... My next move is to sail out of France to the UK and I'm going to go ask for a clearance certificate from the French... The UK end appears to be a bigger problem as coming in I phone Yachtline or whatever it's called but going out back to France the UK wants a letter! Yes a Letter posted in the UK... Then when I sail back into France with a UK clearance certificate and present my Carte de Sejour and passport I wonder if I will get a stamp then.... Nothing to fear from all this just a matter of getting used to the procedures - I think....

 

[RupertW]

Hypothetical question.

You have both a UK passport & an Irish passport.

Is it possible you could do one 90 trip on the UK one, return & then do another 90 day trip on the Irish one, rinse & repeat ?

Throw the UK passport into the bin as the Irish one gives you full U.K. rights. Get a single ticket on the Irish passport and sail, work, live and travel anywhere in the EU for as many months or years as you fancy.

( Not hypothetical for me)

 

[AndersG]

Hypothetical question.

You have both a UK passport & an Irish passport.

Is it possible you could do one 90 trip on the UK one, return & then do another 90 day trip on the Irish one, rinse & repeat ?

Why would you want to do that when your Irish passport allows you to stay for as long as you want in the EU?

 

[billskip]

Why would you want to do that when your Irish passport allows you to stay for as long as you want in the EU?

Does that include Spain?

 

[AndersG]

Does that include Spain?

Yes.
You're supposed to register if staying longer than 90 days but I've never heard of anyone getting problems for not registering.
Your car is not supposed to be in Spain for more than 180 days. Enforcement is rare but expensive if you are caught.

 

[billskip]

Yes.
You're supposed to register if staying longer than 90 days but I've never heard of anyone getting problems for not registering.
Your car is not supposed to be in Spain for more than 180 days. Enforcement is rare but expensive if you are caught.

So let me get this clear ...so it does include Spain, but its illegal?

 

[st599]

So let me get this clear ...so it does include Spain, but its illegal?

It's not illegal. An Irish passport holder has freedom of movement for labour. FoM requires you to register your presence after 90 days. Some countries enforce this (Germany, Belgium, Denmark) and if you haven't found a job, or have a personal income from a pension or similar will send you home.

Registering is simple.

 

[billskip]

It's not illegal. An Irish passport holder has freedom of movement for labour. FoM requires you to register your presence after 90 days. Some countries enforce this (Germany, Belgium, Denmark) and if you haven't found a job, or have a personal income from a pension or similar will send you home.

Registering is simple.

So what is the difference with 90 in 180 for Brits and 90 in 180 for Irish if the both have to register after 90 days?

Registration didn't seem simple for some Germans I was talking to at the registration office where they had been queued for two hours and then sent away needing more paperwork,that's without the nearly impossible making an appointment hastle

 

[st599]

So what is the difference with 90 in 180 for Brits and 90 in 180 for Irish if the both have to register after 90 days?

Registration didn't seem simple for some Germans I was talking to at the registration office where they had been queued for two hours and then sent away needing more paperwork,that's without the nearly impossible making an appointment hastle

The difference is that the Irish passport allows you to register your presence and stay.

UK passports no longer give you a right to stay. You have to apply for residency which has many more hurdles to pass.

For example, last time I worked in Germany, it took 1 hour to sort the paperwork. If I were to do that now, I'd have to take a test in German showing roughly GCSE level ability, prove that there were no candidates in the EU who could do the job, prove that I had enough funds to complete the move and take out initial health insurance.

 

[billskip]

The difference is that the Irish passport allows you to register your presence and stay.

UK passports no longer give you a right to stay. You have to apply for residency which has many more hurdles to pass.

For example, last time I worked in Germany, it took 1 hour to sort the paperwork. If I were to do that now, I'd have to take a test in German showing roughly GCSE level ability, prove that there were no candidates in the EU who could do the job, prove that I had enough funds to complete the move and take out initial health insurance.

Yes understand what you say,but to say,as AndersG says, it is not illegal, but you can get fined if caught confused me a little.
How can they fine you if you haven't done anything illegal?

 

[syvictoria]

In terms of FoM, the Irish passport has exactly the same rights as the UK one had prior to the end of last year - it is an EU state passport. As has been pointed out above, EU residents are supposed to register their presence in most countries if they plan to stay for more than 90, but many don't. There are fines if caught. Nothing has changed.

 

[billskip]

It's not illegal. An Irish passport holder has freedom of movement for labour.

For Spain I am not sure this is correct,from what I read and understand is it does NOT allow you to work. This was the problem the Germans had in the queue for registration, they were not allowed to work even though they were EU citizens

 

[Sea Devil]

So what is the difference with 90 in 180 for Brits and 90 in 180 for Irish if the both have to register after 90 days?

Brits are only allowed 90/180 in ALL of Europe. A person with a EU passport may spend up to 180 days in one EU country then move to another and spend 180 in that one - continually.... In all Europe and indeed many other countries is if you spend 180 days in one country you have in effect become a resident of that country and should register.. As an EU passport holder by freedom of movement legislation you cannot be refused residency.
Brits on the other hand are 'foreigners' from a non EU country and there is no obligation on the host country to allow them to stay and anyway they may only spend 90 in all of Europe so....

 

[st599]

For Spain I am not sure this is correct,from what I read and understand is it does NOT allow you to work. This was the problem the Germans had in the queue for registration, they were not allowed to work even though they were EU citizens

No, an EU citizen has the right to work anywhere in the EU. That what Freedom of Movement is for.

 

[billskip]

No, an EU citizen has the right to work anywhere in the EU. That what Freedom of Movement is for.

I am sure you are right and me being a little on the dim side cant seem to grasp the information I read (google) that Spain does not allow freedom to work without registration, where as it seems France does

 

[Sea Devil]

I am sure you are right and me being a little on the dim side cant seem to grasp the information I read (google) that Spain does not allow freedom to work without registration, where as it seems France does

Yes you do need to register to work - in Spain (Where I lived for the last 12 years) there is an identity card called NIE that is currently changing to TIE. Without having this document you cannot work, shop for large items, buy or rent a property.... If you are from an EU country you will be allowed to register but you have to go through the hoops and spend time at the Police National office who administer all this.
In France where I now live I do not think it is a requirement but legally after 180 days you do need to get into the system as you are then considered a resident and in order to benefit from their NHS etc you need registration. You are right the rules do vary from one EU country to another in detail but anyone with an EU passport may stay and work in any EU country BUT after 180 days continually in that country you are a 'resident' and as such should legally register.

 

[billskip]

Yes Sea Devil that's how I see it, so FoM as far as Spain is concerned since 2012, is really just the loss of 90 days out of 180,for all other purposes registration is required, which seems to be the same for all other nationalities wanting to be in Spain.

 

[starfire]

So, the hypothetical question.

Uk passport, enter & leave before 90 days.
Few days later, Irish passport, enter & leave before 90 days.
Rinse & Repeat.

 

[Graham376]

So, the hypothetical question.

Uk passport, enter & leave before 90 days.
Few days later, Irish passport, enter & leave before 90 days.
Rinse & Repeat.

Waste of effort. Just use Irish passport from day one and everything will be as it was for UK passport holders <31/12.