Leaving and entering schengen countries Passport Question

[syvictoria]

Where are these FoM rights that permit you to stay within other EU states for up to 6 months published

If true there would be no reason for a campaign to get the 90/180 extended to 183/365.

I'm not sure why you are questioning this? 6 months is when an EU citizen staying in another EU state normally has to apply for residency, become liable for tax, etc. This is a well known fact. At 90 days, you normally need to make you presence known, but you can continue to stay on. At 6 months, you need to make the position more official.

HOWEVER, BRITISH CITIZEN'S NO LONGER HAVE THE RIGHT TO FoM!!!!

syvictoria seems to think FoM is free of rules, restrictions and individual countries registration requirements.

It largely is (for the first 6 months) - BUT ONLY FOR EU CITIZENS!

Freedom of movement and of residence

Every citizen of the Union has the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States.

 

[nortada]

I'm not sure why you are questioning this? 6 months is when an EU citizen staying in another EU state normally has to apply for residency, become liable for tax, etc. This is a well known fact. At 90 days, you normally need to make you presence known, but you can continue to stay on. At 6 months, you need to make the position more official.

HOWEVER, BRITISH CITIZEN'S NO LONGER HAVE THE RIGHT TO FoM!!!!
It largely is (for the first 6 months) - BUT ONLY FOR EU CITIZENS!

Freedom of movement and of residence

Thank you for this clarification, unfortunately, I am encountering Brits who do not have residency in the EU but believe there is a magic formula that will enable them to remain in the UK for more than 90 in 180.

Bizarrely they quote the situation before 1/1/21 and then say, " I don't think anything will change."

Portugal specific, at present, it is not possible to fly from Portugal to the UK and if this situation persists beyond 1 Apr, by default, some Brits will exceed the 90 day limit. I would agree, provided they leave the EU when this travel ban is lifted, nothing will happen but thereafter who knows.

What I do know is immigration (SEF) is expanding it's presence at potential ports of entry. Draw you own conclusions.

At this point, I largely lose interest in non-Brit situations. Especially, when the discussion drifts into hypothetical debates. But they could be promotion potentially dangerous misconceptions.

That said, from 19 years personal experience, EU citizens may be required to register their presence in country at the 90 day point and are often given 30 more days to comply before any sanctions. Again from personal experience, this requirement is rarely if ever, enforced. Don't known what the future will bring but I expect no changes.

Turning to the 'well known fact' that when an EU citizen stays in another EU state for 6 moths or more, they normally have to apply for residency and liable for tax, etc. This is completely new to me and I suspect many others so I would be very interested to see a formal link on this. Spent 18 years as an EU citizen in the EU but never encountered this situation. As you say, "Every citizen of the Union has the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States"; which rather conflicts with the above.

Many can follow these discussion and draw incorrect conclusions that could get them into trouble.

It is said that ignorance of the law is no defense but if people overstay their time in the EU in the belief their are a special case with extra privileges, nobody will advise them on day 91 and realization will only strike home when they come to leave the EU or possibly attempt to re-enter.

Next few month could be very interesting.

 

[syvictoria]

Income taxes abroad

Each country has its own definition of tax residence, yet:

• you will usually be considered tax-resident in the country where you spend more than 6 months a year
• you will normally remain tax-resident in your home country if you spend less than 6 months a year in another EU country.

Check tax rates, contact details of tax authorities, definitions of tax residence in the different EU countries:

Edit to add: I think the 6 month thing is actually common throughout the world, not just the EU. It's up to each and every country to individually define and enforce however AFAIA.

 

[syvictoria]

Thank you for this clarification, unfortunately, I am encountering Brits who do not have residency in the EU but believe there is a magic formula that will enable them to remain in the UK for more than 90 in 180.

Bizarrely they quote the situation before 1/1/21 and then say, " I don't think anything will change."

Portugal specific, at present, it is not possible to fly from Portugal to the UK and if this situation persists beyond 1 Apr, by default, some Brits will exceed the 90 day limit. I would agree, provided they leave the EU when this travel ban is lifted, nothing will happen but thereafter who knows.

What I do know is immigration (SEF) is expanding it's presence at potential ports of entry. Draw you own conclusions.

At this point, I largely lose interest in non-Brit situations. Especially, when the discussion drifts into hypothetical debates. But they could be promotion potentially dangerous misconceptions.

That said, from 19 years personal experience, EU citizens may be required to register their presence in country at the 90 day point and are often given 30 more days to comply before any sanctions. Again from personal experience, this requirement is rarely if ever, enforced. Don't known what the future will bring but I expect no changes.

Turning to the 'well known fact' that when an EU citizen stays in another EU state for 6 moths or more, they normally have to apply for residency and liable for tax, etc. This is completely new to me and I suspect many others so I would be very interested to see a formal link on this. Spent 18 years as an EU citizen in the EU but never encountered this situation. As you say, "Every citizen of the Union has the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States"; which rather conflicts with the above.

Many can follow these discussion and draw incorrect conclusions that could get them into trouble.

It is said that ignorance of the law is no defense but if people overstay their time in the EU in the belief their are a special case with extra privileges, nobody will advise them on day 91 and realization will only strike home when they come to leave the EU or possibly attempt to re-enter.

Next few month could be very interesting.

Re: your second red emboldened sentence. How does this conflict? EU citizens do have the right to move and reside freely - i.e.: visa free and without fear of being refused entry. That does not mean that their move isn't without consequence in terms of taxes, regulations, etc.

This has been discussed numerous times in other threads that you've contributed to. I'm confused!

 

[Graham376]

Income taxes abroad
Edit to add: I think the 6 month thing is actually common throughout the world, not just the EU. It's up to each and every country to individually define and enforce however AFAIA.

Although the general rules you quoted are quite correct, they don't necessarily apply where dual tax arrangements are in place as with UK and Portugal, who also allow dual residence. Too many permutations to cover everyone's circumstances in threads such as this.

 

[nortada]

Re: your second red emboldened sentence. How does this conflict? EU citizens do have the right to move and reside freely - i.e.: visa free and without fear of being refused entry. That does not mean that their move isn't without consequence in terms of taxes, regulations, etc.

This has been discussed numerous times in other threads that you've contributed to. I'm confused!

Sorry didn't mean to confuse, quite the opposite.

I highlighted it to emphasis I agree that EU Citizens enjoy complete unlimited freedom of movement throughout the EU; this includes no time constraints.

This rather flies in the face of a suggestion that after 6 months in country, EU citizens have to jump through a number of hoops

 

[Graham376]

Sory didn't mean to confuse, quite the opposite.

I highlighted it to emphasis I agree that EU Citizens enjoy complete unlimited freedom of movement throughout the EU; this includes no time constraints.

This rather flies in the face of a suggestion that after 6 months in country, EU citizens have to jump through a number of hoops

As far as tourism/constantly moving is concerned, you are correct but, they do have to jump through hoops if in one state >90 days by registering their presence and then more hoops if there >6 months.

 

[billskip]

Sory didn't mean to confuse, quite the opposite.

I highlighted it to emphasis I agree that EU Citizens enjoy complete unlimited freedom of movement throughout the EU; this includes no time constraints.

This rather flies in the face of a suggestion that after 6 months in country, EU citizens have to jump through a number of hoops

This is where it does confuse.

As Graham says all people that decide to stay in another country within the schengen zone do have to jump through hoops. A Dutch or German can not stay in spain for more than 90 days without making their presence known and if they stay more than 183 days in Spain they become tax residents automatically (I think)
Once again the confusion is FoM within the whole of the schengen zone and the restrictions of visitation time in each individual country

 

[syvictoria]

This is where it does confuse.

As Graham says all people that decide to stay in another country within the schengen zone do have to jump through hoops. A Dutch or German can not stay in spain for more than 90 days without making their presence known and if they stay more than 183 days in Spain they become tax residents automatically (I think)
Once again the confusion is FoM within the whole of the schengen zone and the restrictions of visitation time in each individual country

FoM is an EU concept - a right of all EU citizens (barring those who pose a security risk). Schengen is an area/group of countries who have agreed to remove all internal borders and to adopt a universal/joint short-stay visa system.

 

[Ric]

There is no "EU law" saying you have to register if more than 90 days. Each country sets its own regulations. In Germany even if a German citizen you have to register with the local rathaus after 30 days even if you just move to another town. Other countries are less strict - eg France makes no specific requirement as long as you have legal right to be in French territory (ie EU citizen).

 

[Sea Devil]

- eg France makes no specific requirement as long as you have legal right to be in French territory (ie EU citizen).

I'm not sure you are right about France - after 180 days you are considered to be a resident and as such need to pay tax and be in the system - but your point is correct - all EU countries have their own registration laws - rules for EU citizens

 

[Graham376]

There is no "EU law" saying you have to register if more than 90 days. Each country sets its own regulations.

There is law although, as you say, there are variations in how it's applied.

EU citizens with a valid identity card or passport may:

• Enter another EU country without requiring an exit or entry visa. Family members who are not nationals of a EU country are not required either an exit or entry visa if they possess a valid residence card.
• Live in another EU country for up to 3 months without any conditions or formalities.
• Live in another EU country for longer than 3 months subject to certain conditions, depending on their status in the host country. Those who are employed or self-employed do not need to meet any other conditions. Students and other people not working for payment, such as those in retirement, must have sufficient resources for themselves and their family, so as not to be a burden on the host country’s social assistance system, and comprehensive sickness insurance cover.
• Have to register with the relevant authorities if living in the country longer than 3 months. Their family members, if not EU nationals, are required a residence card valid for 5 years.
• Be entitled to permanent residence if they have lived legally in another EU country for a continuous period of 5 years. This also applies to family members.
• Have the right to be treated on an equal footing with nationals of the host country. However, host authorities are not obliged to grant benefits to EU citizens not working for payment during the first 3 months of their stay.

FROM WHEN DOES THE DIRECTIVE APPLY?
It has applied since 30 April 2004 and had to become law in the EU countries by 30 April 2006.

EUR-Lex - l33152 - EN - EUR-Lex (europa.eu)