Hurricane
Well-Known Member
As I understand it, it isn't - mine has never carried any importance.
Latest Brexit Scare
- Thread starter Hurricane
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Bouba
Well-Known Member
I don’t think it’s too onerous to get certified locally to helm a boat. The knowledge and skills of our forumites is legendary
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
That maybe be true but I understand that for a Spanish licence, you need to have a better command of the language that I have.
John100156
Well-Known Member
Yes I heard that, that you need to take the exam in Spanish.
We know the ES economically will want to maintain tourism, I think I will just stay put in SC with my ICC for a few years, C-19 permitting, navigating the rolling 90/180 rule and not worry, by then it will all be sorted out....!
We know the ES economically will want to maintain tourism, I think I will just stay put in SC with my ICC for a few years, C-19 permitting, navigating the rolling 90/180 rule and not worry, by then it will all be sorted out....!
John100156
Well-Known Member
Remember the Millennium Bug - we were all going to die.......
Clancy Moped
Well-Known Member
"Compulsory Qualifications For those who do register their boat in Spain the difficult part will be to obtain the necessary personal certification. Some of the problems and pitfalls are set out here.
A person having residential status must obtain the appropriate Spanish qualification or an exemption to command their own vessel.
The Spanish qualification is called the Patron de Yate and is available in 4 categories for different types of boat and intended range of sailing offshore. Each involves a theoretical and a practical exam and is conducted only in Spanish. It is generally considered that a high level of literacy in the language is required.
The Patron de Yate for a 9 metre boat with a 30 miles range, for example, requires the learning of a glossary of 600 Spanish sailing terms and the passing of a 200-question multiple-choice written paper.
It is understood that it is possible to obtain exemption from the Patron de Yate examination if Royal Yachting Association Yachtmaster qualifications are held. No ruling on the matter has been found and practice clearly appears to vary locally. The ICC is not recognised for Spanish flagged vessels. "
Spanish Taxes and Boat Registration
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RobbieW
Well-Known Member
Difficult to find the evidence, it just needs the right search which is eluding me. Currently I've found two references that definitely suggest the change happens on 1/1/21...
https://committees.parliament.uk/wr...ter the end of the,any 180 day rolling period. &
Brexit: when will the 90/180 day rule kick in?
The second one suggests it is the freedom of movement rules that apply rather than Schengen and that they apply up to the end of the WA for UK travellers.
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Interesting links
I suspect that you are right that freedom of movement trumps Schengen but there is no firm evidence.
The only official information I can find is Schengen which, as I say, states:-
You can enter and remain in the Schengen Area for a maximum of 90 days within a 180 days period, without a need to obtain a Schengen visa.
When you run the Schengen checker - implying that these are the rules at the moment.
Bouba
Well-Known Member
Surely any of the other 27 nations have qualifications that are acceptable? there must be one that can be done with a minimal language requirement
John100156
Well-Known Member
You would be perfectly safe, just with an ICC and a UK flagged boat, as a UK Citizen skippering/visiting EU waters IMHO. I just can't see them changing that.
Could cause a few issues I suspect (I don't know) with those that have full Spanish residency, my understanding was in that case they would have to Spanish flag their boats which would require Spanish certificates as the ICC is just for UK Citizens so would no longer cover them???
Could cause a few issues I suspect (I don't know) with those that have full Spanish residency, my understanding was in that case they would have to Spanish flag their boats which would require Spanish certificates as the ICC is just for UK Citizens so would no longer cover them???
Portofino
Well-Known Member
^^^ neatly allows me to introduce “ comity “
Its currently over looked at the mo in the EU , but your ( what ever flagged boat ) stays effectively permanently, more than 6 months then by the book they can now insist you follow local rules , so no change per se after 1/1/21 , just a question if a cattle prod from Brussels comes down forcing the EP , FR or what ever to apply it .
You can see why waaaaay back in 2005 I did the French permit d Mer .Already had the RYA tickets btw , this was as well as ,not instead of - because at the time the boat is / was not transient in the Cote d Azur .
The rag on the back stuck to a pole is irrelevant.
Spain is perfectly within its rights to impose its own rules on foreign flagged boats that are based in its waters. In fact this already happens in its neighbour.
This “ British flag = British rules “ debate regularly crops up. I think you need to read Uncloss 11 and other international agreements. The coastal State can impose whatever conditions it wants on vessels NOT on innocent passage. Portugal for instance requires pleasure craft there for more that 6 months to carry the same safety equipment as Portuguese registered ones although unlike a few years ago Portugal where foreign flagged boats that are deemed resident are required to comply with local rules on equipment. New Zealand also applies local rules to foreign boats that are resident, although like Portugal it exempts genuine visitors or boats on "innocent passage".
Innocent passage is an important concept in international law as that is when coastal states apply the principle of "comity" and respect the state flags rules. However once a boat starts cruising within the waters of the coastal state, and that time exceeds 6 months then “innocent passage “no longer applies and with it comity, although in practice most states do extend comity, at least for private leisure craft. That’s the current position within the Med.
TonyR123
Well-Known Member
I have paid Spanish IVA (21%) when I bought my last boat and this will stay in Mallorca. Soon as my boat arrived in Mallorca authorities wanted the see proof of IVA paid and soon left me alone after that.
From memory the ICC was more a requirement for the insurance than actually having the boat there, but cannot quite remember that one. Could "Irish flag" the boat and leave in the Med with their qualifications? Dont think the 90/180 rule will be an issue for me going fwd.
From memory the ICC was more a requirement for the insurance than actually having the boat there, but cannot quite remember that one. Could "Irish flag" the boat and leave in the Med with their qualifications? Dont think the 90/180 rule will be an issue for me going fwd.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
See my post #51 .
By the letter of the law if you stay more than 6/12 m , you need to follow the local rules .
EU in my experience turn a blind tit for tat eye to date .= No pressure applied in Brussels to change , so nothing done technically to “ harmonise “ leisure boater qualifications as no issues within the club ever flagged up .More important stuff like the curvature of bananas occupied your EU MP s time
How ever post 2021 a bright spark , a vindictive bright spark sat in a office in Brussels could could attempt to force member states to apply uncloss 11 to red ensign leisure boats .
Let’s hope for many on here who think they can hide 12/12 in the EU under Brit flag rules , someone from Brussels is not reading this as a way of getting back at Brits .
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st599
Well-Known Member
This was covered on the recent RYA Brexit forum.
The ICC is a UN document that is recognised by signatory states. Not all EU states are signatories.
The Yachtmaster is recognised by the MCA and valid on all British-flagged vessels. Other states may choose to accept it and may allow you to swap it for a local ticket, or not.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Yeh but for what ?
Transient passage “ comity “
Or permanent........in which case ( they have not done up to now in the Med ) the country you are in could insist under uncloss 11 you “ when in Rome do as the Romans do “ which means there qualys and safety reg etc , rules and what ever .
John100156
Well-Known Member
We can debate this and scrutinise all documents published to date until the cows come home, but until new legislation is agreed and ratified and for that matter understood and implemented, it is IMHO a complete waste of time. Sit tight and wait.
Spain would be utterly mad to impose any changes regarding skipper qualifications, the loss of revenue would be huge as boats weigh anchor and sail away into the sunset, where? Trust me, places will be found.
DEALS WILL BE DONE...!
Spain would be utterly mad to impose any changes regarding skipper qualifications, the loss of revenue would be huge as boats weigh anchor and sail away into the sunset, where? Trust me, places will be found.
DEALS WILL BE DONE...!
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
First point
Yes but you would kick yourself if you didn't do something no that mitigates something decided for after 31st Dec 2020.
The big one that I can see for us Med boaters is to make sure that your boat is in the EU on the 31st Dec 2020.
It seems to me more likely that the EU will accept our boats as EU goods than not.
Apart from sail it away, we can't do much anyway.
Second point - Agreed
You only have to look at the sheer numbers of UK flagged vessels.
I remember a few years ago speaking to a Spanish official in our marina who was worried that we would all go to France because the French will ignore the rules and welcome us in.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Yes and the second point in a way has been tested by the Fr a few years ago .
They played the Fr social / employment charge card on SY crew based in Fr , and simultaneous axed there VAT free fuel status .
Antibes within weeks had tumble weed blowing through the marina .
Infact the largest boats ended up in Valancia .
Within a short time by the end of the season Paris put a temporary memorandum or words to that effect .To save face they technically have not reversed it all out , just put everything back to its original position .A lot of zero rates for SY s et al .
Result recovery of the Fr SY industry.
Interestingly the Sp and IT just lapped up the extra business ,
Eg Fuel sales rocketed in Italy while a Fr tanker at the dock reduce his Del lorries from 10 to 2 .
Corvid , depression in tourist economy etc etc they would be bonkers to apply any harmful leisure boaty policy.
If they were to act ( forced by Brussels ) to act in unison , then that’s not that simple because as I said they have not “ harmonised “ EU boat qualification or safety regs . They use the UN maritime stuff or supposed to ?
So the direction of travel will be away from the most severe to the most doss rules state .....nah it’s a can of worms for themselves.
As said increasingly I,am thinking Y2K deja vu .Nowts gonna happen to make any material difference.
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DavidJ
Well-Known Member
In the new year I’ll be asking my marina to send me a formal letter stating that.
Just as an aside my marina manager, talking Brexit last year said I may need to get a bail bond?????
it did remind me of pre EU trips to Spain in the car where we did have to get a bail bond from our insurance company.
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Yep - I've been thinking the same and have already discussed it with others.
I've also got an idea to photograph every boat in our marina and publish them on a special page on our marina forum in case anyone wants future proof.
I've even written the web software to display the date that the photos were taken.
But the letter idea would probably carry more weight.
I have good contact with our marina manager so I was going to write to him sometime this month.
One of the procedures that our marina operate is a designated dockmaster walks round every day recording what boats are present and who is on board.
It shouldn't be difficult for our marina to make a statement that a particular boat was in the marina on the 31st December 2020.
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